Chenoweths in Middlesex?

[lubok]

Hello
I'm on the hunt for an 1841 census with my Chenoweths on it.
Richard Chenoweth, tailor, married Ann WATSON on 1 May 1820 at St George, Hanover Square.
They had a son named William Watson Chenoweth, who was baptised on 11 Jun 1821 at the same church. At the time they were living in Bloomsbury. They also had a daughter, Jane Watson Chenoweth, born about 1825 in Marylebone (her place and year of birth is taken from an 1851 census where she is with her husband Charles Howard, age 28, Beer Seller, b Lilley). However, there's a baptism record that says she was baptised on 17th June 1840 at St John At Hampstead, Camden, Middlesex - the place of abode was Hampstead. For both of these baptisms, the parents were written as Richard and Ann Chenoweth, occupation of Richard: Tailor.
They possibly had other children, including Charles and Frances.

I cannot find Richard and/or Ann on any 1841 census, even in Hampstead (where Jane was baptised the year before).

Jane married Charles Howard on 18 May 1854 at All Souls, Saint Marylebone, London - after having four of their eight children (a bit unusual). On her marriage certificate, it says Richard was desceased.

Many thanks
Rachel

[tillypeg]

Rachel, have you got this - 1841 Jane Chenworth 16 at Windmill Hill, St John, Hampstead, with the Gall family.
Piece 674, folio 5/30, p12.

[lubok]

ohhhh!!! Thanks tillypeg! I'll hunt it down now....
Another cousin of mine has some old letters that she calls the Gall/Gull (couldn't decipher it) letters, that were regarding a Frances Gull/Gall, and she's a possible daughter of Ann Chenoweth (nee Watson)...
How exciting, thank you!!!

Best wishes
Rachel

[Eyesee]

Jane is not in the same household as the GALL family, but probably in the same house.

The wife is actually Margaret not Mary, according to the Hampstead baptisms. The son William aged 10 looks like he could be William Watson GALL baptised at St John Hampstead on 27 Feb 1831. The other children in 1841 fit with those baptised to Thomas and Margaret at Hampstead as well.

Ian C

[lubok]

Thanks, Ian!
That's fascinating... and there goes that 'Watson' name as a middle name again. It'll be interesting to see how these puzzle pieces fit together, as the Watson/Gall/Chenoweth names are linked somehow. I hope more baptism records from the LMA, and the St John At Hampstead and St George, Hanover Square Parishes come online soon, so I can find more siblings of Jane Watson Chenoweth. Is it possible for a person to be baptised so late (around 15 years of age?)

Many thanks for your help!
Rachel 

[Valda]

Hi

Margaret Gall's death registration was in the same year as the 1841 census, as Thomas (born Bardney Lincolnshire) was married to Ann (born Kirton Lincolnshire) on the 1851 census HO107 1492 folio 216 at Windmill Hill Hampstead

Deaths Dec 1841 
GALL  Margaret     Edmonton  3 9_

St John Hampstead 17th October 1841
Margaret Gall aged 37 Hampstead

Margaret on the 1841 census was not born Middlesex


14th July 1842 St Marylebone
Thomas Gall Full Age Widower Servant Marylebone Joseph Gall Farmer
Ann Lester Full Age Spinster Marylebone Robt Lester Labourer
Marriage by banns, both signed
Witnesses William Tookey and Sarah Grady her mark

Possible first marriage for Thomas

5th July 1830 St Pancras
Thomas Gall
Margaret Brack
Bachelor and spinster of the parish
Marriage by banns
Both signed
Witnesses Joseph Wilkinson and Dina ?


Ancestry has indexed coverage of the St John Hampstead baptisms 1813-1906.

The St George Hanover Square registers are held by Westminster Archives not the LMA. The LMA hold the Bishop Transcripts - the yearly copies of the registers that were made to the Bishop (not all BTs survive or were made in the first place and since they are copies it is always better to check the actual registers themselves for accuracy). Ancestry has the St George Hanover Square BTs for baptisms indexed 1813-1832. There may be no surviving BTs after that date?

People can be baptised whenever they choose to be at anytime in their life. Parents are named in the register but it doesn't necessarily mean that both were present or still alive particularly when the baptism was an adult one.

Jane Chenoweth on the 1841 census is in the same household as Elizabeth Hill, John Walsh and Jane Martin. She is not in the same household as the Galls. The Galls had a daughter Frances as well as a son Charles. Do the letters specify a family relationship or could this have been a friendship between Jane and Frances?


Regards

Valda

[lubok]

Hello Valda
thanks for your help 
My cousin just finished transcribing some old letters that were addressed to our Jane Watson Howard (nee Chenoweth), and emailed them to me yesterday. The one from Frances Gall reads:

Holyrood House
Hampstead
Nov 11th/1860

My Dear Sister,

Your letter gave us great pleasure, we were all very happy to hear you and Charles were getting on so well. I am very glad to hear little Fanny has got quite strong again. I have nothing particularly interesting to tell you. Hampstead is as you know much as usual, very dull and quiet, Mrs Howard has left the House on the Terrace on the account that she could not pay her rent. She had the Brokers in the House. She would have owed a 12 months rent come March, but Hayword agreed to take 20 pounds & expenses so they took away all their things and I believe they have gone to live at Camden Town, but I don’t know what part.  This is all I know about them. Mother and Father have both been very poorly this Winter of the [? illegiable]. But they are now much better. George has got a very good situation. We have a letter from William the other day and we saw in the newspaper that he was appointed Lieuntenant in Her majesty’s Service of the Rifles Corp. We have not had a letter from Thomas lately and Charles never writes which we think very strange. I wish he would write and let us know how he is getting on. I should very much like to see them all especially Tom, he was my favourite - ?? the old day is very much as artful as ever. I do not think I have any more news for this time. So I will conclude trusting you are well Charles and all the children.

With my very best to the Children & Charles. All unite with me in very best love to all not forgetting yourself.

I remain my dear sister,
Yours affectionately,

Frances Gall.

------------
I'm assuming that Frances is the blood sister of Jane... but I cannot find a Gall/Chenoweth marriage anwhere...

Kind regards
Rachel

[careergenie]

Dear Rachel

I have just come across your posts. How fascinating!
I am the great great Granddaughter of William Watson Gall(b.1831) son of Thomas Gall who lived in Holyrood House Hampstead.

By 1850 Willie Watson Gall had migrated to Adelaide in Australia and married  Mary Berry on 28th Sept 1850 described in the S.A. Register as "W. Watson, eldest son of Mr T. Gall Hampstead Middlesex."
By 1855 his private residence was listed as Holyrood Cottage South Road Adelaide.
As far as I can work out his siblings were Thomas (b. 1833) Charles (b1835/6) Frances(female b 1839) and George (b 1841) -all born Hampstead London.  I havent tracked how many of them came to Australia.

The letter from Frances to her "sister" is fascinating. All the siblings are mentioned.

However I've spent all afternoon trying to establish the connection with your Jane to no avail.
Two things puzzle me. First the sister reference, although I think it was common in the nineteenth century to address sisters in law as sister, I still havent found the link. The other very puzzling thing is that Frances wrote the letter in November 1860 and signed it Frances GALL from her parents house in Hampstead. However she married William Lyndall on 2 May 1860 at St Pancras Church Camden Middlesex. He was a widower. In the 1861 census his age is 36 and hers 22. .and the Gall Household has a grandson William Lyndall aged 6 - presumably from the first marriage.

 I suppose in 1860 they could all have been staying at Holyrood House given that it was a boarding house. Still it seems odd that she signs as Frances Gall. I've tried to find a connection between the Lyndall family and your Jane.  No luck yet. The only thing I can think of at this stage that woulod explain the "sister" address is that both women have brothers called "William Watson" though that does seem to be stretching the point somewhat.
The post by Valda was much appreciated. I wasnt clear until now on the Margaret and Ann marriages. Now I know that WW Gall's mother was definitely Margaret.

I would love to know if your cousin has any other letters relating to the Galls.

Kind regards
Rosie

[Valda]

Hi

Welcome to Rootschat

Sister may be used in several contexts beyond a sister by blood or marriage

a woman of the same faith (particularly amongst Puritans)
a female of the same society
a nun or nurse
a woman standing in the relation of a sister

The later may be the case here.


Regards

Valda