Sherrington Parish Registers - DOWNING (DOWNYNG), 16th century

[dukewm]

Ahhh, yes.  Thank you Rob.  I just found my note with your GEDmatch Kit No and went to the GEDmatch site to punch it in as you outlined.

Like I said, I haven't explored the DNA angle much.  I guess the boxed details above Chromosomes 2, 7, 10, etc. and the little summary at the bottom indicate you and I have some significant matches.

I'd like to compare some data through a PM thread if you are willing.
As a result of my own trees being PARTIALLY filled in with some unverified connections, I can't actually publish them, but I've built various extensive trees that are pieced together from bits of evidence.
 
I have a tree headed by Jefferry Downinge of Belchamp St Paul, Essex, which asserts that his eldest grandchild is Lt. John Downinge (a theory based on several bits of circumstantial evidence).  John's downline is partially complete.  The Catherine Browne data outlined in the Olden Times Reply seems to be in question.  Regardless of all that, looking back at your Reply # 59, I see that you have established your tree running back through Martha Downing, Maj. John Downing, Catherine Browne, and then it branches off through her mother, Julia McCarthy.  Of course going through her husband, Capt. John, you can also claim descent from Lt. John as your 10th great grandfather, making you and I 11th cousins, assuming I can prove my link to Lt. John.

THEREFORE, your DNA match, although by relatively few SNPs, helps to confirm my connection.
I've noticed that Ancestry only lists down to POTENTIAL 8th cousins, so assuming you and I ARE 11th cousins, the few SNP matches makes good sense.

I see while I was reviewing this, you've posted more info about your tree and your mother's kit, which I will look at.  Thanks so much.

[SirRobHiFi]

Very much willing, PM away!

[dukewm]

Hello,

The Reverend Pierce William Drew had a keen interest in his family history and contributed genealogy articles/family trees to various publications the 1850s.  “The Royal Families of England, Scotland, and Wales” Volume 1, by J B Burke published 1851 contains a pedigree of the Rev. Pierce William Drew (Pedigree 14).  I suspect that Rev. Drew submitted this pedigree to Burke.

The Rev Drew claimed that John Downing had married Catherine Browne and that she was the daughter of Sir Valentine Browne (1st Baronet of Mohaliffe and Ross) by his second wife Juliana McCarthy.  Drew claimed direct descent from Edward I through ancestor Sheely/Shelly/Sheila (otherwise known as Julia/Juliana/Julian) McCarthy. 

However, there is problem with Drew’s claim.  There are documentary sources that say that Catherine Browne was a daughter by Sir Valentine’s first wife Ellis/Ellice/Elizabeth Fitzgerald rather than his second wife.

Paul

Hello Paul,

Re: your Reply # 68, partially copied above

It looks like your documented evidence that Catherine was the daughter of Sir Valentine's first wife, is well-sourced and I have no reason to question, or challenge, your findings.  I believe Rob said he was setting the Browne tree aside and I'll probably edit mine as well.
Thank you for digging up and reporting your info.

As you say, it was likely Rev'd Drew was driven to show a link to Edward I, which was apparently a rather common endeavor "back in the day" for families to bolster their social status.

Rob has compared his GEDmatch DNA kit with mine and it seems we are 11th cousins, with Lt. John Downinge of Ballymanagh being our most recent common ancestor.  He has posted his pedigree in this thread (Reply # 59) which is proven and verified back to his 6th great grandfather, the great grandson of Capt. John Downing and the disputed Catherine Browne.  At that point Rob follows Catherine's tree, but if we follow Capt. John's side, we see that he was the son of Lt. John aforementioned.

If you go back and review my 5 part series that begins on Reply # 54 of this thread, you will see that I have amassed a rather extensive set of notes on the life of Lt. John.  Although some of it is UNVERIFIED, the full body of circumstantial evidence is too voluminous to be brushed off as coincidental.  Ironically, Lt. John can also claim direct descent from Edward I, through his father and paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Wingfield.

[Mt Frisco]

Hi all,
Another Downing descendant here. There are many of us from the Revd Richard and his wife Aphra nee Maunsell, then down through the Lloyd's of Tipperary.

I have my Gedmatch number if you'd like, and those of other relatives on that line, if you wanted to compare. The link will be a long, long way back however I'm often astonished to see old family connections in the paper trail confirmed by DNA in the various DNA sites. Some DNA seems have 'stuck' for a long time, down the ages.

Very interesting to read of all your research (Rob, Rick and Paul, and others) and I didn't know that Catherine (widow Downing) was hacked to death by rebels. How very gruesome. She would be my 9x Great-grandmother.

Best wishes, Dee

[dukewm]

Hello Dee,

Always great to hear from another cousin.
My GEDmatch DNA Kit No. is ZK6098473 for your comparison.

Rob and I share 53 fully identical SNPs across 6 segments, which I hear is pretty significant for 11th cousins.  I'm sure he won't mind sharing his Kit No. with you, but I'll leave that up tp him.
If you find that my DNA matches yours to some degree, please let me know.

By the way, I've been to the area where Catherine was murdered and almost certainly pinpointed the location where she likely forded the River Blackwater, just upstream from St. Mary's Abbey.
The "old pepper's orchard" was directly behind the abbey.  She was my 10th great grandmother.

respectfully,
Rick

[Mt Frisco]

Hello Rick,
Thanks for your Gedmatch number. You match my Mum and some other relatives, though I had to drop down to 3cM in the one-to-one comparison.

The match is on chroms 1, 8, 15, 21 with Mum; 1, 2, 5, 9, 12, 14, 21 with a cousin; 1, 4, 13, 15 with another cousin; 1, 8, 9, 15, 16 another cousin; 8, 9, 13, 16, 19 with yet another.

We all descend from Rev Richard Downing (a long time ago

I also did the 'people who match two kits', but that threw up different names in each set, so I won't pursue that avenue.

Regards, Dee

[dukewm]

Hi Dee,

Well, those matched segments look pretty convincing to me.
Would you mind sending me the GEDmatch Kit No. of at least the cousin who matches the 7 segments, and his/her name ?

Do you and all those cousins reside in County Tipperary ?

Thanks for checking,
Rick

[dukewm]

Hi Dee,

I meant to say you could PM me if you wish to keep GEDmatch No. confidential.

[Mt Frisco]

Hi Rick,
Happy to help. How do I send you a private message?

Cheers, Dee