Sherrington Parish Registers - DOWNING (DOWNYNG), 16th century

[ChasH]

Hello each,

Well, if the query had had the correct info to start with . . . .

And as I said, I was acting as a devil's advocate which really concentrated the minds it seems

Chas

[Accra]

Hello Rick,
This is in reply to your email 8 to me.

You are correct Henry bapt. 1640, 'St. John at Hackney' is the son of Calybute Downing. [There are many different spellings for Calybute and when I quote from an original document I use the spelling on the document.]. The question is, is Henry the father of Adam Downing b,1666 d. 1719?

Calybute's 4 daughters and son Henry were under 21 when he died. We know they were under 21 because of the wording of their grandfathers will. Their grandfather was Calibutt Downing of Shenington in the County of Gloucester, his will is dated 31 Oct. 1644 and proved 15 Dec. 1644. [PROB 11/192] He used 2 different spellings in the will for his name - Calibutt/Calybutt .
Their father Calybute was already dead because his father wrote - "... my late son Dr Calybute Downing deceased..."
Jill.

[dukewm]

Thanks Jill!
It seems like every time you submit more details on these DOWNINGs, another piece of the puzzle fits together or confirms what I already had.

Are any of these DOWNINGs in your direct line ?
If so, you may have more verification I'm seeking and I may have something to add.

Meanwhile, I'll focus now on Henry, bap. 1640 at St. John's Hackney, whom I believe is the same Henry, father of Capt/Col Adam.
Will search the PR's of Henry's marriage to Jane Clotworthy on or abt. 2 JAN 1665 but as yet, I don't know where they may have married.

thanks again and please "stay tuned"
Rick

[Accra]

Hello Rick,

This is in reply to your email number 7 to Chas.
I'm interested in the list of Adam Downing's siblings and their birth dates plus 1 death date. Where did you find them?

Facts we know - From Adam Downing's will dated 4th Jan 1716 his mother was named Jane and 2 brother named George and Samuel.

Facts we know - From Nicholas Downing's will dated 18th Feb. 1698 [ Nicholas being the uncle of Adam and siblings ] Adam had brothers named John and George, Nicholas names them as Adam's brothers.
Samuel Downing is a nephew in Nicholas's will, and Adam's will names a brother Samuel.

That leaves 3 other Downing nephews named in Nicholas's will -
Daniel
Abraham
Bernard 

Apart from leaving Adam the bulk [with wife Mary] of his estate - to go on to nephews John, and then George if their brother Adam had no children - the only other nephew who was left more than money was Daniel Downing and I quote -

"I leave and bequeath unto my nephew Daniel Downing all my tentant right &
 profits in and to the townlands of Moyagall he paying the yearly rent payable
 to the Lord Viscount Masserene for the same."

This is just a thought - Because Daniel received more than other nephews, apart from Adam, I wonder if it means he was an eldest son of another of Nicholas's brother and not from the father of Adam and siblings, so therefore a cousin to Adam and siblings. I have no idea.

I have never found any female siblings for Adam I would love to know where you found their names and dates. Jill.

[Accra]

Hello Rick,
Sorry I forgot. Yes Adam is my line, his son John and John's son Dawson, [here we part company]  and Dawson's son John. Jill.

[dukewm]

Hello Jill,

Yes, I have pieced in the names as you have mentioned from the wills of Nicholas and Adam, some of which matched my previous "collection" and some which added to it.

As to the nephews mentioned in Nicholas' will, my source already had Daniel as a brother of Adam and unless proven otherwise, I'll leave him as such.
I offer the explanation that he was treated separately (from how John and George were mentioned) due to his tenancy rights with the Vintner's Proportion (as you've indicated).

On the siblings of Adam:
I am in possession of a limited edition (50 copies) book titled "Genealogy of the Downing Family", by William Colwell Downing and R. Wilberforce, Dando Printing and Publishing Co., 1901.
William b. 1860 was a brother of my great-grandfather and Mr. Wilberforce attended Edinburgh Univ. and was a member of the Historical and Genealogical Society of Pennsylvania.
This publication has been proven to contain several inaccuracies, however, much of it is correct.
This source lists Henry b. 10 MAR 1630, d. 25 SEP 1698, m. 2 JAN 1665 to Jane Clotworthy and having issue:
1. Adam b. 18 MAR 1666 (our guy)
2. John b. 1667, d. 1736
3. George b. 1668, m. 1690, d. 1729
4. Elizabeth b. 1669, m. 1692, d. 1740
5. Daniel b. 1670, m. 1696, d. 1733
6. Anne b. 1672, d. 1674
7. Margaret b. 1675, m. 1696, d. 1723
8. Anne b. 1678, m. 1702, d. 1757

Since the Will of Nicholas mentions nephews Adam, John, George and Daniel AND Daniel is listed as another son of Henry as above, I'm leaving it as such for now.

The focus from here (at least for me) is HENRY.
My book has him b. 1630 and at some point having been from "East Hatley", Cambridgeshire.
The HENRY, son of Calybut(e), bap. 14 NOV 1640 at St. John's, Hackney, London presents a problem with dates and perhaps location.
My book also gives the father of Henry as Emanuel, son of Calybut (Sr).
Emanuel has since been eliminated from this line as we have previously found out, the only verified Emanuel from that era being from Suffolk (bap. 1585) and unrelated.
At this point I am only piecing together clues and considering it possible that Adam's father was indeed named "Henry" (we know his mother was Jane), and his father Henry may have been the son of Calybut(e) (Jr).
All the time lines are close enough to consider and the names are at LEAST coincidentally alike.

On your line from Dawson (Sr), son of John, grandson of Adam:
Do you have any siblings of Dawson documented ?
I have Dawson b. 17 MAR 1739 m. 3 APR 1762 to Catherine Fullerton, d. 23 DEC 1808
All I have is one son of Dawson (Sr) named George Alexander b. 30 NOV 1775

I also ran across a Dawson Downing listed as living in western PA (I think Pittsburgh) on a census return that caught my eye (perhaps 1840 or 1850, can't remember).
Any link "closer to home" there ?

enjoy (what remains of) your Easter weekend,
Rick   

[Accra]

Hello Rick,

This is in reply to your email number 14 dated Sun. 4th April.

My family tree, started in the late 1800's by my great-grandfather, also has Daniel as one of Adam's brothers, but no more information on him so until I have found documented sourced proof he is Adam's brother he will have to stay on the sideline.

Certainly one of the inaccuracies in your Downing book was made centuries before your great-great uncle gathered information for his book and it was possibly the most misleading one for Downing researches. It was written by Anthony Wood b.1632 d.1695 of Oxford, also known as Anthony `a Wood. He wrote that Emanuel Downing was the son of Calybute Downing[snr] and through the generations his mistake gathered momentum and was written in many books and papers!

My search is also for the same man - the father of Adam Downing but I don't yet know if he is named Henry.
I don't think Henry, bapt. 1640, the son of Calybute Downing junior is the father of Adam Downing, I say this because of Nicholas Downing's will - 1698.
Nicholas named a brother as William in his will and Calybute Downing senior only named one grandson in his will - Henry. There is no mention of a Nicholas or a William.

The Henry, b.1630, in your book may possibly have been from East Hatley, Cambridgeshire but it would not have been until after Jan. 1661 which was the date Sir George Downing bought the estate ['The Godfather of Downing Street' by John Beresford - p.125 Ref 2. Feet of Fines of the county in the P.R.O.]

I find in interesting that your g-g-uncle and my g-grandfather came up with the same first name and surname for the mother of Adam Downing and the first name we know is correct because of Adam's will.

For his fathers name my g-grandfather hedged his bets and he named a Henry Downing,  birth 1630 death 1698, as being a Major in the 1st Foot Guards, and/or a John Downing birth 1640 who also served in the 1st Foot Guards and listed his rank from Ensign to Major.

The 1st Foot Guards are now the Grenadier Guards and their 'Nominal Roll of Officers of Royal Regiment of Guards, raised in England, 1660 by Colonel John Russell'  has no Henry Downing listed. They have 2 Johns and one has the same 'history' as the John on the tree, but that doesn't prove he is the father of Adam.

The Dawson Downings siblings I have are -
Alexander Clotworthy Downing b.1727 d.1812.[Date on Downing vault]
Rowe b.? died of fever
John b.? d.? Capt Royal Artillery [I have a Rosegift deed dated 10th Oct. 1788.
                    signed by brothers John and Dawson].   
Margaret b.?  d.1775 [Date on Downing vault] Married Capt. James Hand.
Sarah b.? d.?   Married Charles Dawson. Their son married Medici eldest dau.
                       of Alexander Clotworthy Downing.

My date from the Downing vault for the internment of Dawson Downing is the 4th July 1807. His birth year is the same as yours, I don't have a marriage date for his 1st wedding which was to Catherine Fullerton. They had 2 sons the 1st was George Alexander and the 2nd David Fullerton and when they changed their surname to Fullerton David became David Fullerton Fulerton.
Dawson's second wife Anne Boyd was the 1/2 sister of his first wife.

I have not heard of a Dawson Downing of PA. There may be links to our Downings but I don't know.
Jill.



 

 

[Robert Stedall]

I have come to this rather late in the day but am assisting Peter Fullerton of the Irish Downing family. There were two Henry Downing's. This Henry was the son of Rev. Emmanuel Downing and Lucy Winthrop. He was born on 10 March 1630. Some records say that this was in Salem Massachusetts, but this is unlikely as his father Emmanuel did not go there until 1638, returning to London in 1652. His closest siblings, Nicholas Downing was born in London in 1629 and Ann was bp in St Brides Fleet Street, so it is likely that Henry was also born there, but probably travelled to Massachusetts temporarily with his parents.  There can be little doubt that it was this Henry, who married Jane Clotwothy as it was his unmarried brother, Nicholas who left money to their children (including Adam Downing) in 1698. There is also a record that Adam lived in Downing Street, built by his uncle Sir George Downing.

There was a second Henry Downing, the son of The Rev. Calybute Downing and Margaret Brett. He was baptised at St. John  Hackney on 14 Nov 1640. His father was the Rector of St John, from 1636 to 1644. There is a record that this Henry changed his surname to Brett, presumably to inherit from a relation of his mother's. I have found no record that he married. 

I share the general difficulty in trying to establish the antecedents of Jane Clotworthy. While the location of the marriage has not been found, the date on 2 Jun 1665 looks about right as her eldest son Adam was b. 16 March 1666.  There is a portrait of 'Jane Downing' at Downing College Cambridge. This has been lent by the Fullerton family. I am in little doubt that this is Jane nee Clotworthy and she became the matriarch of the Irish Downing/Fullerton family. The portrait says that she was born in c. 1640. It has often been assumed that she was a daughter of Sir John Clotworthy, 1st Viscount Massereene, b. c. 1595. This is biologically possible. The 1st Viscount returned from Ireland to London in c. 1640, where he became a member of parliament and was closely involved in the impeachment of Thomas Wentworth, Earl of Strafford. He certainly had a daughter, Mary,  who married Sir John Skeffington, later 2nd Viscount Massereene, in 1654. This suggests that Mary was born in c. 1634. There is no record that I have seen of the 1st Viscount having another daughter. He was also strongly puritan and dressed to match in his portraits. Jane, who was probably painted at the time of her wedding (coincidently the time of the 1st Viscount's death), wore bright blue silks and a rather decolte cut for her portrait. This suggests that she was not particularly puritan in her outlook, although this was after the restoration. I err on the side of those, who doubt that she was the 1st Viscount's daughter. I also have no evidence that she visited Ireland. As the Irish Downings were always keen to demonstrate their elevated status, I rather suspect that they would have been keen to let it be known if she was Massereene's daughter. They only knew that she was 'Jane'!

I have done quite a lot of research on Ireland, having written 'Men of Substance' which is a history of the London Livery Companies in Ireland. 

[dukewm]

Hello again Robert,

I am dying to find out as much as possible on the Jane Downing portrait at Cambridge.
The connection I find very interesting, is that it was lent by the Fullerton family.
The Fullerton's of northern Ireland were definitely woven into the Downing branch by virtue of the marriage of Dawson Downing, grandson of Adam, b. 1739, to his first wife, Katherine Fullerton on 3 Apr 1762.

Whether or not this was the "Jane Clotworthy" I am trying to prove remains to be seen, but your reference is very intriguing.
We are not even certain that Adam's mother was a Clotworthy.  All that is known for sure, is that she was named "Jane" because he mentions her in his Will, dated 4 Jul 1716.  It is presumed (but not certain) that Adam's father predeceased his mother and that his name was "Henry" as suggested by the book, "Genealogy of the Downing Family and Immediate Collateral Relations" by William Colwell Downing and R. Wilberforce, © 1901.  William Colwell Downing was my great great uncle.

Another interesting fact, is that Col. Adam Downing (a Captain during the Siege of Londonderry), rode under the command of Col. Clotworthy Skeffington, 3rd Viscount Massareene, an association that may, or may not, have been arranged due to his father's marriage to Jane Clotworthy.
However, my research indicates that Sir John Clotworthy, 1st Viscount Massareene, had only ONE daughter, Mary, who married Sir John Skeffington, as you mention.

The first arrival I have found in northern Ireland of the Clotworthy's was (Sir) Hugh and his brother Lewis, who emigrated from Devonshire in 1573 with the 1st Earl of Essex under the Ulster Expedition.  This is speculation and you have to believe the birth years for Hugh and Lewis given by ancestry.com (1563 - twins ?) for it to be true, but when they got there isn't important to this discussion.  They were followed by an older brother, Simon, probably sometime after he married in 1582/3.  Sir Hugh, knighted by King James I, was the father of the aforementioned Sir John and Lt. Col. James.  James was seated at Muckmaire, County Antrim and Monnimore, County Derry.
Little else is known on James, Lewis, and Simon in my notes, so it would be of great interest to find out if Jane may have descended from one of those male Clotworthys.

As for Sir George, 1st Baronet; he was the son of Emanuel Downing and Lucy Winthrop and did indeed go to Massachusetts in 1638.  However, as evidenced by family letters of Lucy (nee Winthrop) Downing, Sir George had no brothers named Henry or Nicholas.
Rev. Calybute Downing, Rector at St John Hackney, likely baptized all his own children and they are well documented.  He had only TWO known sons, Calybute, who died age 6, and Henry, bp. 14 Nov 1640, as you state.  The additional info you give on Henry is of interest but we have discounted him as being Adam's father because there is no Nicholas.
We know Adam had an Uncle Nicholas because he is mentioned as Co- Executor, in the Will of Nicholas Downing of Drummard, County Derry, dated 18 Feb 1698 and "Drummard" is just up the hill (perhaps adjacent) to "Rocktown", which Adam described as his homestead.
In other words, there can be no link between Sir George and Adam Downing, unless it can be tied into an earlier generation.

The bottom line and moral of the story is that we need to talk.
I'll sign off using my favorite quote from an old Firesign Theater bit,
"Forward Into the Past"
Rick Turner