Chigwell baptism - Rebecca SPICER

[BugJemm]

If anyone has access to the Chigwell parish registers, I'd be very grateful for confirmation and any further information regarding the baptism of Rebecca SPICER. According to the IGI, she was christened on 11 October 1789 and her mother was Alice SPICER.

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

Jemma

[Bryant]

Hello Jemma

Welcome to rootschat 
Unfortunately the IGI's are down at this moment in time for maintenance  as I was hoping to see if Alice had more children? (click on the code at the bottom of the IGI page giving the detail enter surname and mother's christian name and see if any show?)

This web site is also handy....its the IGI site but arranged into parishes...
select the England IGI batch numbers (toward the top in the centre) but at this moment in time its not working due to that same maintenance!

http://nzsghamilton.co.nz/england.htm

Bryant

[BugJemm]

Hi Bryant

Many thanks for your reply

I did have a look on the IGI for potential siblings for Rebecca when I first found her but could not spot any, which would actually tie in well with my current information.

My 4xgreat grandfather Edward Turner married Alice Spicer (his third wife) in Haverhill and they went on to have four children of their own (one of whom was my 3x-great grandfather William Turner), in addition to the four children from his previous marriages. In Edward's will of 1837, he mentions a Rebecca Spicer, daughter of his wife Alice, who was married to Joshua Nunn. There do not seem to be any Rebeccas with a mother of Alice Spicer baptised in Haverhill, but I found Rebecca in London married to Joshua Nunn and then discovered the Rebecca born in Chigwell to Alice Spicer (no father mentioned on the IGI) with an appropriate year of baptism.

I was hoping that the baptism record for Rebecca might provide some additional information to help me confirm whether this is indeed 'my' Rebecca and whether Alice had been married before she married Edward Turner or was a spinster, so that I can then start to re-confirm details for Alice, as we had assumed she was born Spicer but are now not so sure

Hope that makes some kind of sense....   

Jemma

[Bryant]

Hello Jemma

I hope this makes sense 

Using the NZ site (IGI's in a different format) and having no success with baptism's of the period I looked at marriages.........
and it looks like the Spicer's migrated from Haverhill to Chigwell (Alice, Charles, Hannah) whereas two of them then married (Charles & Hannah) and one was led astray 

Chigwell
Charles Spicer married Ann Howell 2nd May 1797
Hannah Spicer married Robert Mallison 25th Oct 1793
Amelia Spicer married Thomas Maynard 28th Nov 1824

so then I looked for the birth/christening of Charles.......

Charles Spicer christened 24th Aug 1765 The old meeting house-presbyterian, Haverhill, Suffolk
parents Charles & Sarah Spicer

and then I clicked the batch number, entered a surname of Spicer and a father's christian name of Charles and here are the results including a certain lady by the name of Alice 

From the International Genealogical Index

WILLIAM SPICERE....Christening: 19 MAR 1757 The Old Meeting House-Presbyterian, Haverhill, Suffolk.....................................Charles & Sarah

ALLICE SPICER....Christening: 22 JAN 1760 The Old Meeting House-Presbyterian, Haverhill, Suffolk......................parents...Charles & Sarah

REBEKAH SPICER....Christening: 01 AUG 1764 The Old Meeting House-Presbyterian, Haverhill, Suffolk ...Charles & Sarah
 
CHARLES SPICER.....Christening: 24 AUG 1765 The Old Meeting House-Presbyterian, Haverhill, Suffolk......................................Charles & Sarah
 
CAROLINE SPICER....  Christening: 17 DEC 1820 The Old Meeting House-Presbyterian, Haverhill, Suffolk ...Charles & Mary
 
SUSANNAH SPICER.... Christening: 21 JUL 1758 The Old Meeting House-Presbyterian, Haverhill, Suffolk..............Charles & Sarah
 
SARAH SPICER.... Christening: 05 DEC 1755 The Old Meeting House-Presbyterian, Haverhill, Suffolk......... Charles & Sarah
 
HANNAH SPICER.... Christening: 24 APR 1761 The Old Meeting House-Presbyterian, Haverhill, Suffolk ...Charles & Sarah

WILLIAM SPICER....Christening: 12 JUL 1818 The Old Meeting House-Presbyterian, Haverhill, Suffolk.....................................Charles & Mary

Bryant
 

[BugJemm]

Hi Bryant

Thanks again for your efforts - much appreciated! 

I had originally thought that Alice was the daughter of Charles and Sarah but once I found the will I was wondering if she had actually been married to a Spicer and hence wasn't Charles and Sarah's daughter. My hope was that the Rebecca's baptism record would confirm this in some way, though it seems unlikely, and I'll have to hope the Chigwell records are digitised on Seax at some point in the future!

In the meantime, though, it does rather look like Charles and Sarah moved from Haverhill to Chigwell with at least some of their children and that Alice was perhaps just a naughty single Mum who ended up back in Haverhill wedded to a recently widowed man who needed someone to look after his existing four children. I think my next move will involve digging for census records for Charles, Hannah and Amelia to see if they give me any clues!

Many thanks again for hunting around for me.

Jemma

[Bryant]

Hello Jemma

I should imagine that Amelia is of a different generation (one of the boys daughter) so here we go....................

1841 census
Baldwin's Hill, Loughton, Chigwell, Epping, Essex
Thomas Maynard.................35...........................Essex 
Amelia............"....................35...........................Essex
William..........."....................14............................Essex 
Thomas.........."....................12............................Essex 
Lavinia..........."....................11............................Essex   
Joseph..........."......................9............................Essex   
Jonathan........"......................4............................Essex 
Jane..............."......................2............................Essex   
Ann................"......................4 months................Essex
------

Amelia Spicer christianed 31st March 1805 Loughton, Essex
Susannah Spicer christianed 1st May 1808 Loughton, Essex
....Parents for both are Michael & Susannah Spicer
and also.......
Michael Spicer born 21st Sep 1798 Epping...christianed 21st Oct 1798....
John Spiser born & christianed 1802.......Parents for both are Michael & Susannah Spicer

1841 census
Baldwins Buildings, Loughton, Essex
Michael Spicer............65.....................Essex 
Susan........"...............60.....................Essex
-----------
   
Bryant
 
 

[suffolk*sue]

Have you seen the Turner/Spicer marriage in the parish registers, this will tell you if Alice was a spinster or widow at time of marriage.

They married in Haverhill in 1792 according to Boyds marriage index.

[toni*]

I should imagine that if the child was given as d/o Alice Spicer and no father mentioned then it was likely that she was illegitimate – of course the actual baptism entry will tell you more if the clerk had made a note in the margin for example – unfortunaltey these notes are not transferred to the IGI database presumably because there is no space for additional notes.
It does look as if Bryant has found Alices bp AND she had a sister Rebekah which again would lead me to believe that Alice was unmarried hence the use of her maiden name Spicer and would say she named her daughter after her sister.
The will again seems to confirm that Rebecca is the daughter of Alice Spicer alone because it would be expected that her natural father make allowance for her and not Edward Turner
So without having firm evidence i.e. without having seen the Chigwell PR’s  I would be 90% sure that Alice as unmarried when she had Rebecca  and that Bryant has the correct Alice .