Author Topic: Sir Charles George Smith's family - Durban, Natal  (Read 23106 times)

Offline Barrie Green

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Sir Charles George Smith's family - Durban, Natal
« on: Thursday 25 March 10 08:10 GMT (UK) »
I have only just recently found out that George Smith, the youngest brother, of my g/g/grandfather (John Browne Smith of Dartmouth, Eng.,)had a son Charles George Smith who went to Natal and was involved in the Illovo Sugar Co. there etc. I have been trying to locate him for years and his first wife's Probate named  him. He was born in London in 1859. He married Matilda Filby Crowder in London in 1883 and married Francis Elizabeth MacGillivray in Durban in 1933, the same year that Matilda died in London. ?Did they separate?
I would like to finally complete this Smith Family Tree if possible but need to know if he had any children with Matilda Crowder and if so where can I find their names etc.
Sir CG Smith's brother, Herbert Holdsworth Smith, also seems to have left Queensland for Natal and for a second marriage married a Mabel Matilda Reynolds  (Australian born)whose family may also have been in the sugar business. Were there children from this marriage also? When did HH Smith die?
George and Emma Smith, the parents of these two, may also have gone to Natal as Sir Charles G Smith left a Foundation for Women's scholarships in the name of his mother  called The Emma Smith Foundation.

Google has bits and pieces about the above but no genealogy dates etc. Where can I find out a bit more please?


Ever hopeful - Faith Green ::) ::) ::)

Offline rutti tutti

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Re: Sir Charles George Smith's family - Durban, Natal
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 25 March 10 15:14 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,
If you search NAAIRS you will find there is a death notice for george - this would tell you if there were any children etc
DEPOT     NAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MSCE                                                                 
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 0                                                                     
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 32558/1941                                                           
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          SMITH, CHARLES GEORGE. (S/S SMITH, FRANCES ELIZABETH) (BORN           
           MACGILLIVRAY).                                                       
STARTING  1941                                                                 
ENDING    1966                                                                 
REMARKS   BOUND IN SEPERATE VOLUME MSCE 19 559.

There are a number of entries for the same name but i would apply the death notice first - see stickys at the top of the board.

HH also died in Natal in 1933 and there are 3 documents in the archives relating to him. Did their father or mother have second names at all as this is the easiest way to identify them in the archives.

Ruth
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Offline Barrie Green

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Re: Sir Charles George Smith's family - Durban, Natal
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 25 March 10 20:19 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Ruth

I'll follow all that through now. Sir CG Smith had a Probate Entry with the UK Probates - d. 24 April 1941- but it was a limited UK  Probate as I guess all his fortune was in Natal. This did not mention a family member except his 2nd wife.

No, neither of his parents, George or Emma had a second name and I could never ever find a suitable  Death in England for them. Their last and 3rd son, Arthur who appeared with Emma and the boys on the UK 1871 Census was a 'British Subject ' b. South Africa in 1863/4 so the family was there at that time, then back in UK  for schooling perhaps.

I had hoped their may have been an Obituary which summed up his life neatly in a paper.
 
Grateful thanks    Faith

Offline rutti tutti

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Re: Sir Charles George Smith's family - Durban, Natal
« Reply #3 on: Friday 26 March 10 03:47 GMT (UK) »
If you contact "Mole" on this board , she is our Natal expert. I am in Durban, but will be away for 2 weeks so will look at it when I come back - I do have cemetery listings and they may be there.
Ruth
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Offline Barrie Green

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Re: Sir Charles George Smith's family - Durban, Natal
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 27 March 10 08:21 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Ruth, will do that.

Faith

Offline Mole

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Re: Sir Charles George Smith's family - Durban, Natal
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 28 March 10 07:54 BST (UK) »
These are notes I made for other purposes but may be of interest to you: Charles George Smith,a one-time auctioneer who had travelled widely and dealt in many commodities, including livestock and coal [was being considered as a possible Durban agent by the sugar-farming Crookes family].  Now – at age 50 – CG Smith was trying to corner the sugar market. Smith was already an ally of Reynolds Brothers having known Frank Reynolds since the 1870s. He was also close to William Pearce [founder] of Illovo.

Wm Pearce had started out as an apprentice wheelwright and later built wagons and gone transport riding. Born in 1855, he had originally taken up planting as a sideline – first with arrowroot in 1884, then with sugar from 1889. He had bought a small sugar mill and initially tried to do everything himself. Then by 1906 CG Smith was encouraging him to expand. To raise capital he had floated Illovo Sugar Estates, with Smith in the chair and himself as managing director.     P104 ‘Renishaw: the story of the Crookes brothers’

When the Crookes family formed their own joint stock company, two outsiders were included on the board – CG Smith and Frank Reynolds.  P107
The new company was registered as being based in Durban – at the offices of CG Smith in Smith Street (not named after the coming sugar magnate) and the inaugural meeting took place in the Smith offices July 8 1913.

[This close business relationship between the Crookes family and CG Smith continued; not all their ventures were successful; more information in the source mentioned above.]

CG Smith became one of Natal’s nominated representatives in Parliament i.e. a Senator.

CG Smith’s company evolved into a group which was one of the strongest forces in the sugar industry.  Its only rival was Huletts. In 1919 Smith’s various concerns came together in a new organization: the South African Sugar Association.   

There is more on C G Smith in R F Osborn's book 'Valiant Harvest'. Mostly about his career in the sugar industry not genealogical detail.     

C G Smith died April 1941. Buried West St Cemetery, Durban. See MI details below.

SMITH, Charles George
Born: 27 Dec 1858
Died: 24 Apr 1941
Buried: West St Cemetery, Durban, District Durban,Kwazulu-Natal, RSA
Note: Charles George Smith
         
Husband & Wife = C G & F E Smith: His Mother = Emma Smith Son Of Above = R A Smith : Husband & Wife= H H & C E Smith : George Smith Here With His Beloved Mother Lie The Remains Of Charles George Smith,Kcm.G C K'T Of St John.B London Dec.27Th 1858,D April 24Th 1941,Husband Of Frances Elizabeth Smith: Emma Smith,D Oct. 9Th 1891,Age 61Yrs : George Smith,D Jul.3Rd 1891 At Grahamstown,Aged 56Yrs:Robert Arthur Smith,Youngest Son Of George & Emma Smith, D,27Th Jan. 1929,Aged 66Yrs.Interred At Highflats. Church of England section. Block 29. Grave no. 17

No mention of his first wife in sources I have at hand. Also I find no evidence that Mabel Reynolds related to sugar-farming Reynolds family. This doesn't mean she wasn't!

Mole
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Offline Barrie Green

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Re: Sir Charles George Smith's family - Durban, Natal
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 28 March 10 21:55 BST (UK) »
How wonderful Mole! All my questions answered in one lot! I'm very grateful and thank you so much.

 The Auctioneer part makes sense now as in London when he married his first wife, Matilda Filby Crowder b. Natal, he was an auctioneer.I could never understand that, as he came from a family of solicitors, attorneys etc.,and one uncle was the mayor of Dartmouth.
I can now share all this with the elderly relative in Worcestershire, England ,who passed a copy of this old family tree to me some years ago. He'll be delighted!

Many thanks again,  Faith Green

Offline KZN Family

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Re: Sir Charles George Smith's family - Durban, Natal
« Reply #7 on: Monday 26 July 10 09:44 BST (UK) »
Hi there

It seems that we may be related - albeit distantly.  CG Smith had two brothers, Herbert Holdsworth and Robert Arthur.  Robert Arthur is my great great grandfather and he had two daughters (Madge and Joyce) and a son, Ray. Ray was my grandfather.  My Dad was Ray's eldest son.  Apparently, according to my father, Robert Smith, I was named after CG Smith's mother, Emma.

There is so much more to tell you about the Smith family.  My mother in particular would love to get in touch with you.  Do you have an email address?  You can contact me on this forum or via email at: (*)

BTW: I live in Cape Town and I am 37 years old.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards
Emma Smith

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Offline nicktaylor

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Re: Sir Charles George Smith's family - Durban, Natal
« Reply #8 on: Monday 26 July 10 17:49 BST (UK) »
Hello Prince, I have attempted to attach the badge. I hope it works.  :)