WHEELER Thomas - Help with this very solid brickwall

[MumskiG]

Can anyone help.  I have posted on this subject before and have tried to find the birth record of my great grandfather.
This is what I know:

Thomas Wheeler - married 4 Sept 1896 to Louisa Matilda Osborne (I have the marriage cert - and know that is the correct one from family information that can verify Louisa etc.)
He stated his father as Henry Wheeler (deceased) on the certificate.  I have looked in all directions - even seeing if there is any family connection with the witnesses - but they appear to be friends from the local area if the 1891 census entries I have found are correct. 

I know he died on 29 March 1955 - I have the death certificate and again I know that is correct as his death was registered by my grandfather at the address I was eventually born at.

But there it ends.  I cannot track down his birth.  I have found a few census entries where it is a strong possibility or highly likely that it is him.  Living in the Islington area with Clara (widowed mother) and younger brother Charles (who I have living with him in the 1911 census - which I know to be correct by family information on the address, etc.)  I have even found one that may be him when his father was shown as H Wheeler - unfortunately all the names are initials only on this, again it is only a strong possibility - but having said that there are some age inaccuracies that have put doubt in my mind.

Is there anyone out there who may be looking at this branch of their family tree that can help or any other advise would be very welcome -  this particularly branch is very important to me as it is my father's lineage and he is no longer with me.

Any advice anyone
Kind Regards

[nigelp]

What age is Thomas on his death certificate? Do you know the maiden name of Clara?

Nigel

[MumskiG]

Hi Nigel

I have him as 78 years old on the death - making a birth around 1876 - 77.  On census docs he has different areas on each, from St Andrews (Holborn - I think) to Clerkenwell and even unknown on his 1911 entry.

Unfortunately, I can find no marriage for his parents - i.e. Henry and Clara - so no maiden name at present

Have you got some thoughts

[wilcoxon]

Have you discounted this one. All on same page
Marriages Dec 1876   
 
Lloyd  Harriet    Richmond, S  2a 526   
Richardson  Stephen James     Richmond S.  2a 526   
Whaley  Clara     Richmond S  2a 526   
WHEELER  Henry     Richmond S  2a 526   

1871 Could this be the same Clara
 RG10; Piece: 869; Folio: 55; Page: 54
Cambrian Villas , Richmond. This is a Ladies School. Many more names on the page.
Clara Whaley 17 servant b Camberwell

1861 RG9; Piece: 460; Folio: 111; Page: 21
Richmond
Charles B Whaley 41
Jane Whaley wife 37
Clara Whaley  dau 5. b Camberwell.

MODIFIED 
A search of all districts Mar 1853   End date:   Dec 1856  came up with only one result.
Births Sep 1855   
Whaley  Clara    Camberwell  1d 405

 Age doesn`t seem to be right though for your census finds.

[MumskiG]

Hi
No I had not gone any further on this one.  I had found it, but hesitated on sending off for that as it is Richmond - which is a big change in area.  Normally all information is centred around Islington/Pancras/Holborn/City areas.
I might see if I can dig more on this one though
Many thanks

PS
I have seen the Clara Rayner and Clara Wilson marriages - but they both are dead ends and do not track back to Henry

[Ron Lankshear]

Could you give some more clues like age - jobs
1896 Marriage is on Ancestry LMA data and I see he was 19 and a plumber - Henry the father was a bricklayer.
Then 1901 are in Tottenham and he is 25 which with marriage age indicates born 1876 or perhaps 1875 or 1877 - how does 1911 and age at death balance with that?
and 1901 says born Holborn but now he is a carman

There appear to be just two births on BMD for just Thomas Wheeler in London one in Jun 1875 and other in Dec 1877 seems too young. Others all additional fore names.
What are details known for Charles?

Ah just reading your post re death age so the 1875 in Camberwell might well be him

How precise is the Clara connection - I see in 1881 a 5yo grandson living a  59yo Mary and some daughters

Ah now 1891 he is with Clara and Charles age 8 - ah I am answering my questions - I'll look back for Clara

[avm228]

Related thread here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442158.0.html

[MumskiG]

Ron
Interesting you should mention the occupations - I was actually surprised to see his occupation as a plumber it is the only mention of such an occupation, the census do not carry this on or show it prior to this.  On his death he is shown as a retired road sweeper, in the 1911 census he is a carman, 1901 a carman, 1891 a port errand boy (I think maybe at the regents canal basin port?? - it is quite close to where he lived and many young boys in the area on the census had similar jobs)

The ages fluctuate slightly - but I must add that my grandmother (Thomas's grand-daughter) was notorious in our family for changing her age - not always making herself younger either!!

Thomas birth year moves from as early as 1875 if you look at the 1911 to 1876 on the 1901 and 1891 to 1877 in the 1881 (his death cert would put it at 1877.

Clara and Charles are together still in 1901 and her age is a year out in the 1901 and 1891 census giving a birth year of 1841 and 1842 - so fairly accurate.  However, the 1881 census - the one where they are only listed with initials - she is showing as 1836 birth so that census is a more doubtful link perhaps.

Not seen the Clara entry you mention with a 5 yr old grandson is that worth my checking out - what details do you have on that one?

[MumskiG]

Hi avm
Yes I know I am back on this one again - I have continued to work to no avail