Information & advice on heraldry

[DSR]

I'm looking for information on the first known 'correct' coat of ams given to members of the following familys :

Grenville
Bonville
Grey
Zouch
Champernoun


All the above came over from France with William I and were given their due parcel of land, so should be easy to find.  But outside of specific history societys that deal with these familys - all I find are those tacky American (incorrect) coat of arms in gaudy colours stamped on the side of mugs.


What ref books in the Library should I be seeking out ?

[stanmapstone]

You probably know of The College of Arms
http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/

Stan

[DSR]

You probably know of The College of Arms
http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/

Stan

I wish I lived nearer to them !

[jc26red]

You probably know that a coat of arms is granted to a PERSON not a name.   Unless you are descended from the person who was granted the arms, it doesn't mean a thing.

The college of arms will only undertake a search for you if you can prove your lineage 

[DSR]

You probably know that a coat of arms is granted to a PERSON not a name. 

Yep

I'm after the earliest known arms for any individual of the Surnames in my first post.

The college of arms will only undertake a search for you if you can prove your lineage 

I've made Debretts, so am well covered   ennit

[Little Nell]

What ref books in the Library should I be seeking out ?

You could try Burke's The General Armoury of England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales which is basically a collection of blazons (descriptions) of coats of arms.  It is not considered as authoratative, but may help in conjunction with others.

Other possibles:
A Complete Guide to Heraldry by A C Fox-Davies
Grantees of Arms to the end of the Seventeenth Century (Jospeh Foster, pub Harleian Society)
(This is available on the net at: http://www.archive.org)

Nell

[Little Nell]

Having just looked at that last one, it is not as helpful as it might be.    It does not describe the arms.

Grey:  Barry argent & azure.

Not sure about the others.

Nell

[behindthefrogs]

At the time of the Norman conquest most of the Normans had not adopted the armorial system although it was emerging amongst their Flemist allies.  The Bayeux tapestry does show the knights bearing small cloth flags but these are desputedly regarded as having territorial origin rather than being associated with families.  It was during the first crusade some thirty years later that these started to be used as muster points.

The armorial system seems to derive from those families who have their origin in certain ruling families descend from Charlemagne rather than the Normans whose origin was Scandinavian.  The armorial system did not really emerge across Europe until the 12th century.  However it must be remembered that at that time surnames were not established and most men adopted a surname derived from their father's first name.  Hence we get what appear to be surnames like Fitz William meaning son of William with the various men baing distinguished by the addition of phrases like"de Burgh" which simply means from the walled town.

Having said all that William's guardian was the Count of Boulogne who like two Williams "generals" Odo and Robert Count of Mortain were descended from Baldwin II and thus from Charlemagne.

David