Author Topic: Born in Transvaal  (Read 6807 times)

Offline LadoPairts

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Re: Born in Transvaal
« Reply #9 on: Monday 16 March 15 22:50 GMT (UK) »
Hello Antiquesam,

I don't know if your forum thread is still active, or not.

But your ancestor, David RM Scrimgeour, was a professional football player and played for Dundee Hibs (the club changed its name to Dundee United in 1924). He's briefly mentioned on this page:

http://www.arabarchive.co.uk/player.php?id=780

Included below is some basic info about David Rennie Malcolm Scrimgeour.

Kind regards,
Grant.


Birth
David R.M. Scrimgeour was born in Transvaal, South Africa, in 1894 (late February or early March, probably).  The ‘Malcolm’ is his mother’s maiden surname.

1901 Census
In 1901, the Scrimgeour family was living at 2 Earl Street (by the roundabout of Harefield Road and Coupar Angus Road – not far from Lochee Harp’s ground, he played for the Harp before joining the Hibs).

The family then comprised:
Alexander, father, stone-mason, aged 45, born in Friockheim.
Jessie M., mother, aged 43, born in Kettins?(?), Perthshire.
Catherine, 16, born in Dundee.
Alexander, 13, born in Dundee.
Richard, 12, born in Dundee.
Martha, 10, born in Dundee.
David, 7, born in Transvaal.

So at some point between 1891 and 1901, looks like the family lived in South Africa. Maybe they left because it looked like a Second Boer War was imminent?

1911 Census
In 1911, the family is living at 2 Tofthill (off Harefield Road, just up from Lochee High Street).

The family comprised:
Alexander, 55, stone-mason (retired – 55 seems a bit young for retirement, especially in these days)
Jessie M., 53
Catherine, 26, tyfirst
Alexander, 23, foreman
Richard, 22, clerk
Martha, 20, student teacher
David, 17, apprentice engineer
Violet, aged 9, born in Dundee.
Apart from Violet, who is a scholar, and Martha, who is a student, all the rest of the kids are working in the jute industry.

1891 Census
In the 1891 Census, Alexander is not at home on Census Day – Jessie is the named Head of the household.  The family is living at North Street in the parish of Cargill (near Stanley), Perthshire. There is a boarder called James Simpson, aged 60, who is a mason.

Alexander Senior doesn’t appear to be in Scotland at this time. Maybe he’s in South Africa to check out the lie of the land before bringing his family over?

David’s parents
Alexander and Jessie Malcolm were married on 6 June 1884 at 85 Mid Street, Lochee. Jessie was then a weaver and 85 Mid Street was her home address. Alexander’s home address was 1 Balgay Street.

David’s marriage
David married Minnie Ina Thiel (of 18 Long Row, South Shields) in Gateshead on 11 August 1917. Minnie’s father, Alexander, was born in Germany.

David’s children
David and Minnie had two children – Violet May (born in Dundee in 1920), and David Malcolm (1917 to 1940). David died at sea on board a tanker called ‘British Architect’ in March 1940. So father and son died within three years of one another.

The Scrimgeour Family in India – David, Alexander, both Violets and Catherine(?)
We know that Alexander (David’s brother) went over to India in 1912.

We know that Violet May came back with her parents in 1934. But I noticed she went back out to India in 1936.

Catherine married Henry Young who worked in Calcutta, on 19 April 1912, so perhaps she moved to India, too.

Violet Scrimgeour (David’s sister) married Dan McLean in on 9 March 1926 - then they moved to India. Dan died in India on 30 June 1943.

Violet McLean died on 11 January 1959, aged 56, in Fernbrae Nursing Home, Strathmore Avenue, Dundee. The death was registered by her son, Hamish (i.e. David’s nephew). Am thinking that Hamish might still be alive.

Death of David Scrimgeour
David died in Calcutta on 19 September 1937 – he was 44. He was a Mechanical Engineer at the Adamjee Jute Mills in Belur (spelling?).  The cause of death was ‘Heart Failure due to Coronary Thrombosis’. He’s buried in the Scottish Cemetery in Calcutta. He was buried by Joseph Blacklock Kirkpatrick on 20 September 1937. Refer to the newspaper obituary in Andy’s presentation.

Offline antiquesam

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Re: Born in Transvaal
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 17 March 15 07:06 GMT (UK) »
Good morning Grant. Although I have managed to pick up most of the information you have provided I am fascinated that he played football for a real team and I had no idea that any of the family, other than him and Violet were jute wallahs.
Strangely my mother, Violet May, never mentioned a brother and I only found out about his existence by visiting the family grave on a trip around Scotland.
I'm fascinated to know how you have managed to pick so much up information, that seems to have taken me years to accumulate, and assume you must be part of the family in some way to have such an interest.
Thank you so much.
Coomber, Scrimgeour, Shiel, Thiel,

Offline antiquesam

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Re: Born in Transvaal
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 17 March 15 14:38 GMT (UK) »
You were right about Catherine Young going out to Calcutta. I have found her on a passenger list for the "Mulbera" from Liverpool to Calcutta on the 8th of September 1928, giving her address as 2 Tofthill, Lochee.
Coomber, Scrimgeour, Shiel, Thiel,

Offline LadoPairts

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Re: Born in Transvaal
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 17 March 15 21:05 GMT (UK) »
Hi There,

Am glad that this was all news to you (<:

David RM Scrimgeour also played professional football for Portsmouth FC - he signed for them around April 1913.

Well, David died at a quite young age, and his son died very young, so maybe it was too painful for folk in your family to mention them.

(Oh, I was lucky enough to work in genealogy for three years, so I know my way around the various websites and can gather info quickly.)

But, no, I'm not a relative - although I wish that one of my ancestors and played for Dundee United!

A friend and I are doing research on Dundee Hibs, and we're gathering info on the more major players who appeared for the club between 1909 and 1924. Actually, my friend did more research on David RM Scrimgeour than me, and out the into a PowerPoint presentation. I'll see if I can attach that presentation to this post - touch wood, you'll be able to open it.

Ah, so Catherine did go out to India, too - yes, it looked that way, though I didn't research that possibility.

Yes, 2 Tofthill was one of their addresses - Tofthill is a wee street that runs between Harefield Road and Lochee High Street.

As you'll likely know, Scrimgeour (in its various forms) is a fairly common name in the Dundee area - the city's Dudhope Castle was built by the family.

Grant.


Offline antiquesam

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Re: Born in Transvaal
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 17 March 15 21:30 GMT (UK) »
Thanks again for the information. Ironically I live a quarter of a mile from Portsmouth football ground. His footballing career must have been short-lived as he spent a very cushy war as a soldier attached to the armaments factory in Newcastle.
Coomber, Scrimgeour, Shiel, Thiel,

Offline LadoPairts

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Re: Born in Transvaal
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 17 March 15 23:00 GMT (UK) »
You're welcome.

Ha ha - it's a small world sometimes! So he played for the team just round the corner from you.

He played for Dundee Hibs for two years, and he played for Dundee Harp (his local junior team) before that. I don't know how long he played for 'Pompey' for. He was probably too busy to play football after the end of World War One.

I don't think I've seen a photo of him...so far, anyway...but it'd be good to find one. Maybe Portsmouth FC might have one.

Sorry, I couldn't attach that presentation, as the file was too big for posting on this forum.

Offline antiquesam

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Re: Born in Transvaal
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 18 March 15 06:29 GMT (UK) »
I'm afraid I lost all the family momentos in various moves, so all the pictures of David and Minnie in India disappeared.
I would really like to see the presentation and will pm my email address and hope that you can let me see that way.
Sam
Coomber, Scrimgeour, Shiel, Thiel,