Thomas Fredrick Gray born c.1865 Dublin

[dgclough]

Hi,
I'm currently struggling to trace my great grandfather, Thomas Fredrick Gray. According to the 1911 Irish census, he was born in 1865 in Dublin. I can find no record of his birth on pilot.familysearch.org or on ifhf.brsgenealogy.com.

Thomas Gray was the father of my grandfather, John Gray. He married Mary Elizabeth Lemon on 05 May 1891 in Armagh. According to the marriage record on IFHF, his full name is Thomas Fredrick Gray. His father is listed as Joseph Gray, a coachman.

The witnesses were James J Elliott and Annie Quinne.

They were married in the Presbyterian Church by licence by J Elliott.

Residents of house number 68 in Solway (Victoria (part of), Down)

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Victoria__part_of_/Solway/226768/

Do the familysearch records only go back to a certain date? Do you think he lied about his age on the census? Am I missing something obvious?

I'd be grateful for any help,
Thanks,
David

[shanew147]

Civil birth records began in 1864, so if Thomas underestimated his age slightly (as some people did..) on the 1911 census he could have missed the start of civil registration and not be included in the index. Also a few people managed to miss birth registrations in the early stages.

Some County Dublin parish records are available free at http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/, but I dont think they cover any Methodist Baptist baptisms at the moment




Shane

edit : corrected typo

[aghadowey]

Civil registration of births in Ireland started in 1864 so before that date there will be no birth certificates. The age given in  the census should be treated as an estimate and it might be that Thomas Gray was actually born before 1864, his birth wasn't registered or it's under Thomas rather than Thomas Frederick. It's also possible that he wasn't born in Dublin but grew up there.
The 1901 census is due online cJune 2010 and it would be worth checking age and birthplace there.

SNAP!

[aghadowey]

There is a birth registratrion for a Thomas Gray 1865 Dublin South registration district but no way of finding the father's name without ordering the certificate.

[shanew147]

..SNAP!

 

There's two or three possible deaths on the civil index for his father in Dublin, (if indeed that's where he died) - these might be worth checking to see if the occupation matches up ..

these are the index details for the birth aghadowey  just mentioned :

 Name: Thomas Grey
 Registration district: Dublin South
 Record type: BIRTHS
 Quarter and year: 1865
 Volume: 2 / Page: 744



Shane

[dgclough]

Thanks for your replies. I had seen that birth but was unsure of it, as I thought he'd have been registered as Thomas Frederick Gray. Was it common that they would misspell the surname (GREY)?

It's confusing, as Thomas was apparently born in Dublin, his wife was born in Monaghan, the children were born in Antrim and they lived in Down! On the 1911 census Thomas' place of birth is first listed as Belfast, which is crossed out and replaced with Dublin!

Also, there are another family of Grays living in Solway. Do you think it's likely that they are related? John Gray is the head of the family.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Victoria__part_of_/Solway/226718/

They are listed as Episcopalians, whereas Thomas was Baptist. Was it common to have such a variation of spelling?

Thanks,
David

[shanew147]

I definitely think it's worth following up that 1865 birth - could easily be the right one and there's no way to know without seeing the cert.  Names were sometimes spelt in unexpected ways - by the registrar, the informant (possibly a parent) not  being able to read/write etc  In this case I think it's quite a minor spelling variation, and you'd commonly see this on records depending on the source.

Probably the way to confirm or rule out a connection with the other Gray family would be to order a marriage cert for the couple to see who the grooms father is... although none of their birth places mention Dublin


Shane