cartwright and Howell families in Fermanagh

[stuart vogel]

I am looking for the family of William Cartwright who was born around 1807 in County Fermanagh. He married Mary Anne Howell around 1829 in Clammora, (Clonmore?). They lived in the Townland of Drummachabranagher. They appear on the Griffiths evaluation 1848-1864. The immediate lessee was the Earl of Enniskillen. They lived in the parish of Killesher and the total rateable value was 12.pounds ten shillings. He died prior to 1874.

Mary Anne Howell was born around 1811 in Clonmore, County Louth. She came to New Zealand with some of her children.

Does any one have any comments on the names Howell and Cartwright, especially in the Counties of Fermanagh and Louth in the 19th century?

Stuart

[Christopher]

Hello Stuart,

This site shows the distribution of surnames in Ireland 1848 - 64

http://scripts.ireland.com/ancestor/index.cfm

It also enables you to do a search to show where both Howell and Cartwright households were recorded in the same parish in the Primary Valuation property survey of 1848-64.

Best Wishes, Chris

[carty]

Hi Stuart,
I am at present tracing my family tree.
Mary Cartwright nee Howell came to New Zealnd on the "Altrato" 1873 with her 2 youngest sons Edward (22),
James(20) & 2 of her nephews Robert(22) my grandfather & James(20). she lived in South Canterbury New Zealand until her death 1874.
I have a lot of infomation on the family tree in New Zealand but very little in Ireland.
I realise it is some time since you posted this message but hopefully you are stil in contact.
Kind Regards
John Cartwright, Ashburton, Canterbury, New Zealand

[Saorog]

Hi Stuart,
I am at present tracing my family tree.
Mary Cartwright nee Howell came to New Zealnd on the "Altrato" 1873 with her 2 youngest sons Edward (22),
James(20) & 2 of her nephews Robert(22) my grandfather & James(20). she lived in South Canterbury New Zealand until her death 1874.
I have a lot of infomation on the family tree in New Zealand but very little in Ireland.
I realise it is some time since you posted this message but hopefully you are stil in contact.
Kind Regards
John Cartwright, Ashburton, Canterbury, New Zealand

Hi John, Stuart,

I am also tracing my family tree, but I am one of the Clonmore Howell's. Not having huge success with this side of the tree though. This is new and interesting information to me. There is some info available on the Howell's in Clonmore (it is a small rural area, there appear to be 3 - 4  distinct Howell families though, possibly stemming from brothers circa 1800). Perhaps we could pool information and we might get a step further.

Regards,

Saorog

[carty]

Hi Saorag,
Like you I am looking for the Irish Cartwright connection more than anything. Where do you live & have you the "Blue Book"?
That is the 'Cartwrights in Early South Canterbury` published when we had a family reunion at Pleasant Point South Canterbury in 1959. That has a lot of info of the New Zealand Cartwrights up to 1959. If you would like a copy I could organise it for you. Robert was my grand father who came to NZ with his Aunty Mary nee Howell.
Kind Regards
John Cartwright , Ashburton NZ

[stuart vogel]

Hi John and Saorag,

thanks John, I have the the Cartwrights in South Canty. Yes, I think the big challenge now is the Irish connection. I live in Auckland. The most likely candidate I have, taken from the Griffith's Valuation is

"Richard Howell was a farmer and resided in Clonmore, on a holding with Rev Sir J Robinson, Bart., as landlord registered in Dunleer on the 17/02/1817, situated in the Barony of Ferrard. He is recorded there in 1822 and in 1842 he was recorded as a freeholder in Clonmore. In the GV he had house offices and land on and area of 11.0.4 acres. His land had a rateable annual valuation of 8.00 pounds and buildings 2.00. He is recorded as a voter and freeholder in Clonmore, Ferrard in 1842. He married Margaret (surname unknown)"

I can't prove that however. I will need to look thru my notes again. Any ideas on this?

Stuart

[Saorog]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't aware of the Cartwright/New Zealand connection till I saw your post, so it is all new to me! I am trying to connect my last known Howell in Clonmore (Richard Howell, b 1859) to Mary Anne Howell. This may not be possible. Stuart (op above) emailed me this morning to tell me that Mary Anne's father was also a Richard Howell, and it is a relatively rare name in this area for this time. My second name is Richard incidentally, I was partly named after another Richard Howell who died in a farm accident in Clonmore in the 1950s. I will collect what I have and prepare a return email/tree. Thanks for the reply!

Regards,

Saorog

[Saorog]

Hi all,

I see Stuart managed to reply on the thread while I was typing the above post!
I still live around Clonmore, so I can do some leg work if needed. The local priest let me see the original registers, but sadly the Catholic Howell's only went back to 1880s in the ones he had at the time. I will try other sources. I actually left this side of the tree to last thinking it would be easier than the others but it is not proving to be so. The Howell families appear to have lived in the Rath/Clonmore areas since at least the 1750s. They were Protestant, and farmers. This was quite common for the area at the time. They appear to have switched religion through marriage sometime around the mid 1800's. I have no direct evidence for this accept that they suddenly start appearing on Catholic registers instead of Church of Ireland ones. I haven't done an in-depth search of the CoI registers yet, but it's next. The are 2 distinct Howell families originating from Clonmore now, one still living in the area. There are certain common Howell first names that recur in this time frame:

Richard, William, George (and to a much lesser extent, Patrick, John)

Here is an excellent site, I have met the fellow who compiles it and he is a really excellent authority:
http://www.jbhall.freeservers.com/1756_commission_of_array.htm/

On that page, for instance, we can see a Richard Howell from the general area (exact area not mentioned) who was at the commission of array in 1756. The page mentions: "The Commission of Array was held nationwide in September of 1756. As this was the era of the Penal Laws, Roman Catholics were not permitted to bear arms. Consequently, the names in the following list can be assumed to be members of the Protestant faith. The Commission was held to ascertain the number of eligible men available to protect the country and to train these men in the use of firearms etc."

Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with.

Regards,

Saorog

[stuart vogel]

Hi Saorog,

it is all action tonight! This is great. Let me collate my material on Mary Anne and William Cartwright of Fermanagh. She may have converted to CoI as he was definately protestant. I will get that to you over the weekend and look at the website and try and come to some possible conclusions.

Let me do little more than cut and paste in my notes on Howells that I have made over the years. They may be incomprehensible to anyone else but me, but let's work thru them. Sorry to inflict you with this in raw form!!

Stuart

Howell
 
Background:

The earliest confirmed connections were Richard Howell who was in Clonmore in 1824 and 1842. The LDS files show a large number of Howells in Co. Louth in the 18th century centred, on Drogeha. There are 4 Howell families in the GV 1848 and 1 in Fermanagh.
George Rathdrumin Coughlea
George, Rathdrumin, Rathdrumin
William, Rathdrumin, Rathdrumin

A possible connections in the GV; William Howell was in Fermanagh, Gallon Parish; location Milltate.  He had had house valued at 1.00 and the immediate leasee was James Clark. In Milltate, there as a corn and flour mill, kiln run by James Clark. These could be unrelated.

1831 Tithe Defaulters; Anty Howell, farmer Dunaresh, Dunefort Shillagher Kilkenny

1536-1641 John Howell item 289 High Court of Admiralty examinations, Material relating to Ireland)
Richard Howell was in the Barony of Ferrard in Sept 1756 and was listed in the Commission of Array, held in Dunleer. George and John Howell were in the Barony of Atherdee and Louth. These were Protestants able to bear arms.

William 07 Nov 1773 , Tipperary, Fr. John Howell (born 1745 c in Fethard, mother Rebecca born c 1749, married around 1770 in Fethard, 4 children Alice (1772), William, Henry (4/6 1775), Mary 11/3 1778)

William Howell of Clonmore was a flax grower in 1796, as was William Howell of Rathdrumin in 1796.
This might suggest two branches of the Howell family. (Irish Flax Growers List) They also appear on the Spinning Wheel list

George and William Howell both resided in Rath, (Rathdrumin), Co. Louth, where they had their leaseholds under the Rt Hon John Foster as Landlord, registered at Collon on 20/01/1817. This appears to have been in the Barony of Cloughlea. Patrick Howell was a voter in Rathdrummond, Barony of Ferrard, Landlord Mr Smith Barry in 1865.

Howel George, Rath, Rathdromin, Lord Oriel, Collon 25/10/1824, Ferrard
Howel William jun., Rath, Rathdromin, Lord Oriel, Collon 25/10/1824, Ferrard
Howel William sen., Rath, Rathdromin, Lord Oriel, Collon 25/10/1824, Ferrard