DUNN[E] Ralph James, death 1861-1868 lookup please

[josey]

I have searched for 2 years for a death for my 2 x g grandfather Ralph James Dunn[e]. I have tried all the bmd sites, some parish record sites and some cemetery sites. I have been unable to locate probate for a will.

He was born in ca 1808 in Ireland, married 1838 in London, appears in censuses: 1841 in Chelsea as DUNN, 1851 at 25 Paradise St Lambeth as DUNN & 1861 in 9 Saunders St Lambeth as DUNNE. 1838 a groom, 1841 & 1851 a bacon drier, 1861 a provision dealer. In Q4 1868 his widow Elizabeth remarried James NOTTINGHAM.

On the marriage certificate of daughter Sarah DUNN in 1875 he is named as James Ralph DUNN. On the marriage of another daughter Alice Mary DUNN in 1872 he is named as Ralph [not deceased but this is not always noted]. The death of Ralph James DUNN registered 1857 Q2 Lambeth 1d 175 is his son.

I have noted, but do not have the certificate for, the death in Newcastle Q4 1863 of a Ralph DUNN but there was another family of DUNNs there using the forename Ralph so I do not think that is him. 

Any help in finding Ralph's death would be gratefully received. Many thanks.

Josey

[Bryant]

Hello Josey

Are you sure that Ralph is seen in Chelsea 1841?
and I must admit to not liking Elizabeth being born in Lambeth in the 1851 census and York in the 1861 census and Huddersfield, Yorkshire in 1871, the 1861/1871 I can understand but the 1851
What I would like to see if I was you is a birth cert from either census ie Sarah's from the 1851 and Alice's from the 1861 census just to confirm the mother's name for both births as well as father and occupation..........you may have that info but I don't know that 

1840
Ralph Dunn marries Elizabeth Clegg Newington R.D, Surrey

1841
St Geo the Martyr, Surrey
Ralph Dunn.......30........groom........Not born Surrey
Elizabeth "........20...............................".........."
----------
* 1841 rule.....20-24=20, 30-34=30 etc

As for Ralph's demise have you looked at Ralph Don who died June qtr 1862 Rotherhithe R.D.....not saying it is but it is a possibility
just checked...it isn't him, Ralph Don was married to a Maria in 1851 living in Rotherhithe

Bryant

[josey]

Thank you for replying.

I made a mistake with Chelsea, mixed them up with someone else; yes I have them in St George the Martyr.

I have Sarah's birth certificate from 11 Nov 1850 [she is my g grandmother]. Father Ralph Dunn is a foreman at a bacon driers, mother Elizabeth Dunn formerly Clegg; living at 6 Newport St Paradise St Lambeth. Also Alice Mary's birth certificate 15 Mar 1854 at 4 King St Lambeth same parents [Ralph just a bacon drier not a foreman bacon drier].

I think the places of birth in 1851 may have been a case of the enumerator marking 'ditto' when it was not the case. Perhaps it was a neighbour who told the enumerator & didn't know Ralph & Elizabeth's place of birth? Still - Ireland & Yorkshire - rather different accents than London!!

I had not seen that death in 1862 - worth getting the certificate. Thanks again.

Josey

Added later - just seen your addition so won't get the certificate!!

Added even later - Ralph was a groom on the marriage certificate of 18 Aug 1840; both living t 6 Friar St. Ralph's father John Dunn deceased, Elizabeth's John Clegg shop keeper

[Bryant]

 Hello Josey

The info below is from findmypast which I assume is the same family?

James Ralph Dunn
Date of burial....26 November 1848
Place of burial...St George, Southwark
Age at death... 3
Approx year of birth....1845
Address at death.....Valentine Place

Bryant

[josey]

Yes, this was their 3rd child. Ralph & Elizabeth were living at 24 Valentine Place Blackfriars Road on his birth certificate; birth 22 Jan 1846. 

Children were
Elizabeth 1842
Frances 1845
James Ralph 1846 - 1848
John 1848 - 1894
Sarah 1850 - 1890
Alice 1854
Ralph James 1856 - 1857.

Thanks, Josey

Added later:
Their address on the death of Ralph James Dunn aged 9 months on 13 May 1857 was 8 King Street Lambeth. Ralph is a journeyman bacon drier.

[josey]

PS There may of course have been children after Ralph James - there are quite a few Dunn births/deaths in Lambeth between 1857 & say 1865.

Josey

[Bryant]

Hello Josey

Still can't find his demise......was he just one of those not registered?
was he more exciting like a bigamist?
did he just vanish and never seen again?

I had a look at passport applications 1851-1862 (doesn't show 1862-1874) the nearest is James R Dunn passport number 42268 Sept 25th 1856 but personally I wouldn't place much hope on this man being your Ralph as Ralph is the name he uses.......

Bryant

[josey]

Yes, possibly the death was not registered. It cannot have been easy for poor families to find the money. Sometime I hope to get to the LMA & look at the St Mary's Lambeth records - something may turn up there. There should be a burial. I don't think St Mary's records are online but I believe the East Surrey FHS were transcribing them. 

I hadn't thought of the alternatives - you have now set my mind racing....bigamy - vanishing! He also may have gone back to Ireland & died there. Thanks for looking at the passport applications; he was on the 1861 census but who knows - may have applied for a passport well in advance of a planned disappearance! I don't suppose Elizabeth would have had to produce any documentary evidence that she was a widow when she remarried in 1868.

The hunt goes on.

Josey

[josey]

Another thought I had was when viewing parish records where you see burials for 'unknown male aged about ...'. These were maybe itinerant workers; on the coast bodies were obviously washed up from time to time. So Ralph may have been travelling when he died.

Josey