Where is Robert Veevers? - COMPLETED THANK YOU

[garstonite]

Hi Luzzu....on familysearch Edith Osborne is stated as being b 1868 Redruth Cornwall on a birth record  submitted....but she is nowhere to be found in the 1881 census returns on that site....allan

[Valda]

Hi

1881 census RG11 4146 folio 146
20 Yorkshire Street Burnley
Edith Osborne 13 Boarder Nurse Redruth Cornwall


Regards

Valda

[Luzzu]

Thanks for all your replies.  I really appreciate everyone's help.

Thanks for finding Edith in 1881, Valda.  I was missing that one as she wasn't with her family at 42 Hart Street, Burnley.  I have her now on all the censuses 1871-1911.

There are a few Robert Veevers in Lancashire. Can you say when yours was born and where? Also what was the name of the wife in 1911, and where were they living?

From the 1901 census, I believe Robert Veevers was born in Burnley in 1869.  He seems to be missing from the 1891 census.  Edith is a boarder at 75 Branch Road, Burnley and is recorded as married.  She has their son with her - Class: RG12; Piece: 3365; Folio 133; Page 21; GSU roll: 6098475.

Regarding Robert in 1911.  I am out of credits at the moment so can't view the full details. I have no evidence yet that Robert had a second wife.  I can't see an obvious BMD reference either although there is one in 1903 in Oldham and the two brides are Agnes Ellen Sinkinson and Mary Ann Wood.  I have just tried using the free search to see who else is in the household and there is a Mary Veevers who I think is his wife and she was born in 1880 in Burnley.

I think I can see Robert Veevers on earlier censuses with his parents who I believe are Alfred Veevers and Sarah Jane Hurst:-

1871 - Class: RG10; Piece: 4148; Folio: 109; Page: 7; GSU roll: 846732.
1881 - Class: RG11; Piece: 4149; Folio: 70; Page: 3; GSU roll: 1341994.

However, I do need to confirm his father's name by obtaining his marriage certificate.  Since the price increase, I try to make every certificate count and do as much checking as possible before committing to buying the certificate.

Luzzu

[Luzzu]

The plot thickens ....

In 1911 Robert Veevers was living at Rakehead Farm, Nelson.  He was aged 42, occupation cotton weaver, born in Burnley.  He has a wife, Mary Veevers, and three children; Sarah aged 10, Mary aged 4 and James aged 2 and has been married to Mary for 12 years.  There was a 4th child who died.

I have been looking for a marriage for 1899/1900 but I can't see any possibles.  There is a birth for a James Arthur Veevers in Burnley 2nd qtr 1909 (mother's maiden name Livesey)  and there is another birth for James Veevers 2nd qtr 1908 but with no mother's maiden name.  Sarah was born in Preston and Mary and James were both born in Nelson 

The marriage I found in Oldham in 1903 to Mary Ann Wood doesn't seem to fit anymore because they would have only been married for 8 years in 1911.

May be Robert and Mary never actually got married because of the previous marriage to Edith?  Can anyone suggest what I should do next please?

Thanks,

Luzzu

[Valda]

Hi

People tend to say things on censuses and marriages for propriety's sake. There were no checks in the system and no documentation they had to produce to back up what they were saying. Therefore if you have an older child in the household you may choose to adjust the date of your marriage accordingly.


You don't give Mary senior's age and place of birth on the 1911 census so that makes it harder - this is a stab at it which consequently might not be correct. The details would have to marry up with the 1911 census information.


Births Jun 1900     
Wood  Sarah Pamela     Preston  8e 578

Marriages Mar 1920     
Howarth  Thomas  Veevers  Burnley  8e 581   
Veevers  Sarah P  Howarth  Burnley  8e 581

No obvious birth registration for a Sarah P Veevers on FreeBMD


1901 census RG13 3950 folio
149 Victoria Street Preston
Charlotte Rogers 30 Head Single Frame Tenter card room Newry Ireland
Lillie Rogers 28 Sister Single Frame Tenter card room Newry Ireland
Sarah Rogers 24 Sister Single Licensed Pedler Hawker Liverpool Lancs
Mary Ann Wood 20  Niece Single Cotton weaver Farington Preston Lancs
Sarah Pamela Wood 11 months Great niece Preston Lancs


Marriage out of area

Marriages Mar 1903
Veevers  Robert     Oldham  8d 779   
Wood  Mary Ann     Oldham  8d 779

No proof of course from the marriage index that this Robert married Mary Ann Wood and not the other female named in the other pair.


Regards

Valda

[Luzzu]

Sorry Valda.  Forgot to include Mary Veevers details from 1911.  She is aged 31 years old (born c1880), occupation cotton weaver and born Lostock Hall, Lancashire.

On the Lancashire BMD, the 1903 marriage does confirm Robert Veevers married Mary Ann Wood - http://lancashirebmd.org.uk/

On the same reference there is a marriage Robert Veevers/Mary Ann Rogers which I thought  might indicate Mary Ann had a previous marriage so was possibly a widow.  What is really interesting is that the 1901 census you found includes both surnames.

People tend to say things on censuses and marriages for propriety's sake. There were no checks in the system and no documentation they had to produce to back up what they were saying. Therefore if you have an older child in the household you may choose to adjust the date of your marriage accordingly.

You are ahead of me this morning  .  It hadn't occurred to me that they could have married after Sarah's birth and adjusted the dates for the census.  That might make more sense than not getting married at all.

I have definitely confirmed this morning that Robert Veevers was the son of Alfred Veevers and Sarah Jane Hurst.  Alfred was born in Colne and his occupation on the Robert Veevers/Edith Osborne marriage certificate was greengrocer.  In 1871 he was a cotton weaver but by 1881 he was a grocer.

Luzzu

[Luzzu]

Forgot to mention, Lostock Hall and Farrington look to be adjacent to each other on the map - just to the south of Preston.

Luzzu

[Valda]

Hi

A good possibility then.

It doesn't mean that Sarah was necessarily Robert's child. It could just mean that she was absorbed into the family on the marriage of her mother and took her stepfather's surname. Simpler that way and less awkward questions about who Sarah Wood was? She might or might not name Robert as her father on her marriage. She might as the only father she had known.

1881 census RG11 4224 folio 78
Upper Row Farrington
Eli Woods 25 Head Married Cotton spinner Preston Lancs
Mary Woods 23 Wife Married Frame Tenter Liverpool Lancs
Mary Ann Woods 1 Daughter Farrington Lancs


Marriages Dec 1878 
ROGERS  Mary Ann    Preston  8e 840   
WOOD  Eli     Preston  8e 840   


Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
WOOD        Eli               ROGERS Mary Ann       Preston, St James Preston                228A/2/46



Regards

Valda

[Luzzu]

Hi Valda,

This is looking really good  .  Thank you so much.

I am getting confused a bit now with the reference on the Lancs BMD to her being Mary Ann Rogers and Mary Ann Wood.  They are obviously the same person and now it is looking like her mother's maiden name was Rogers it doesn't seem like she was previously married  .

Luzzu