Ellen Elena BUTLER

[Rockbourne38]

Thank you so much for the info produced, I must tell you why this mystery has frustrated us, we started with my great grandmother Harriett Ann, a daughter of John James and Ellen/Emma and were told the maiden name of Harriett was Stevens, we searched for a marriage cert for Harriett and her husband Albert Phillips, but could not find one, when we eventually got one we found she is shown on her marriage cert as Stephenson, so then we went looking for details of her parents, and in the 1980s were told about the name change from Shufflebottom to Stevens, and after obtaining much info about our family on the Phillips line, and much on the Stevens line, we decided to look back past the Shufflebottom/Butler marriage, and are finding just as many dead ends as we did over the many years looking for a marriage of Albert Phillips and Harriett Stevens that turned out to be Stephenson, as Harriett could not read or write, but Albert could do both.  We then found Albert was of aboriginal descent, but can only find a record of his mother and his stepfather, who was named Phillipe, then Phillips, but can still find no record of the biological father of Albert Phillips born at Williams River near Dungog in about 1840-43 period, but his death cert shows him age 69 in 1912, but not sure if that is correct as no birth record has been found so far.  We have also not been able to find details of the parents of John James, just that he came from Burslem in Staffordshire, most of our frustration is because we dont know where to look and any sites that need payment are beyond our capacity to pay as we exist on our pension only.  Wish we had been aware of this site earlier, it has been a great help to us, and for that we thank you, just our first day, and already getting results, thank you thank you thank you

[MonicaL]

Can be frustrating sometimes, especially the further back you go as records get thinner on the ground and it gets harder to verify information  

Some family trees show Ellen's mother as Johanna Barry (not clear what the source - marriage/death cert perhaps?).

Monica

[MonicaL]

This looks a possible christening entry for John/James on IGI at www.familysearch.org:

JOHN SHUFFLEBOTTOM  Christening: 29 JUL 1810 Burslem, Stafford
Parents: WILLIAM SHUFFLEBOTTOM and ANN

There are a few more christenings showing there for a couple with these names.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Was John transported (life) to NSW in 1829 from what you know about him?

1829 John SHUFFLEBOTTOM 18 assault/to rob near Sturston life transportation:

John Shufflebotham/lab & groom/native place STS/
5'7"tall/fair-ruddy complexion/brown curly hair/blue-grey eyes/tattoos-greyhound & hare left arm,
woman & 2 birds right arm/
1829/Jul/hulk "Dolphin"/Chatham/
1829/Jul 30/New South Wales/ship "Morley"/sick on ship/paristhmitis tonsillaris/considerable swelling of left tonsil/26 Aug-1 Sep/diarrhea/24 Oct-30 Oct/
previous conviction in Cheshire, used to the treadwheel/
ticket of leave 18 Dec 1837/district Port Macquarie/

http://derbyscourts.com/index/data/1829.html

Monica

[Rockbourne38]

Yes that is the same John Shufflebottom who is my great great grandfather.

we have been told that when his daughter Harriett Ann married Albert Phillips, who was of aboriginal descent, her family ostracised her and the only one of her family who ever had anything to do with her after her marriage to Albert was her sister Mary Irwin, who died the year after Harriett died.

we would really like to find out so much more than just the generations from John and Ellen and Albert and Harriett, my husband has his maternal family tree right back to the late 1700s, taken from parish records in england because the church there still had all their records of births, baptisms, marriages and deaths, and the family seemed to stay in the same village, or close to it for generations, however my family in australia seemed to keep moving, and we just dont know where to start looking for those left behind in England and Ireland without going to great expense (for us) of paying subscription fees to the various online service that may be able to help us. We have also found over the years that although we are willing to pass our own family tree  info on to anybody else in the family who asks for it, we so often find that other family members tell nothing, almost as if they believe that to keep it to themselves it gives them some power, but we continue to share, and just wish others would, have you come across things similar, there are really no such things as secrets in family history, because if you know it, somebody else will eventually find it, but it takes perseverance we have found, and dead end streets are a challenge, and your group are making things so much easier for us, just with the stuff you have given us today, that has confirmed things we had without any evidence, and given us hope at last that we can continue back past the 1840s and John James and his marriage to Ellen/Emma.

[MonicaL]

The Irish side for Ellen will be tough    It is hard for all of us with Irish ancestors (which sometimes feels like half the world!). Keep an eye out for the website Shane mentioned earlier and the planned release of new records for the Cork area. From what Shane has said, it is free to use.

On the Staffordshire records, I hope someone comes along with experiece in this county and can give you some guidance on records there 

Monica

[Rockbourne38]

Monica, you have no idea how pleasing our time has been on this dratted computer this morning, the info given to us, by both you, and by Shane, has been so good for us.

as we mentioned, we find it so frustrating that some family members know stuff, allude to it, but we just cannot pry it from the,

we were lucky in that some years ago, a great Aunt, who had lived with Harriett Phillips nee Stevens during the last 10 years of her life, was able to pass on to us so many stories about the family that would never appear on any sites with records of birth, death or marriage, just those family stories that are sometimes hidden and never get into print, and we recorded her information on tape, then typed it into our family history records, and we share it with all in the family who ask, so then they get it, warts and all, and sometimes it becomes upsetting for some family members to know about the things their ancestors got up to, but it is those stories that turn a family tree into a family history, do you agree? and thanks again, we will keep our eye out often and regularly for the info on update of Cork records

[coombs]

I agree researching Irish ancestors can be difficult as a lot of records were destroyed or lost. I think the 1851-1891 censuses of Ireland were destroyed by the Government.

[shanew147]

The census returns for 1861 and 1871 were destroyed after the statistics had been extracted, the ones for 1881 and 1891 were pulped during the First World War,due to paper shortages.

Returns for 1821, 1831, 1841 and 1851 were destroyed in a fire and explosion in the Public Records office at the Four Courts in Dublin during the Civil War in 1922. Many Church of Ireland records were destroyed in the same explosion as these were considered state records and had been deposited in the records office for safe keeping.

Civil records are intact, but only started in 1864 (1845 for non-Catholic marriages). Staring dates for Catholic records vary quite a bit depending on the parish, but most have details from the 1830s onward. (Some RC parishes have much older records)




Shane