Author Topic: Military Medal recipients  (Read 60090 times)

Offline AliMacD

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Military Medal recipients
« Reply #72 on: Sunday 26 July 15 15:19 BST (UK) »
Hi to all,
I am new to this very interesting site and have a request for those far more knowledgeable than I am! A distant relative of mine, Patrick Tobin (Regt No 2088)was killed in action 21/3/1918 at the Somme for which he was awarded the Military Medal. He served with the 7th Battalion Leinster Regt and I wish to find his citation if at all possible. I downloaded his medal card from the National Archives but it only gives scant details of his service. However the date he qualified is 17/12/1915 so not sure whether he was awarded then as opposed to when he was killed in 1918. Once I solve this part of the riddle then I may be able to establish which battle he was killed in? Hope there is help out there please?
Regards
Ali

Offline stonechat

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,676
    • View Profile
Re: Military Medal recipients
« Reply #73 on: Sunday 26 July 15 15:29 BST (UK) »
There are not normally citations surviving for MMs.
You could try looking at war diary as a longshot
Douglas, Varnden, Joy(i)ce Surrey, Clarke Northants/Hunts, Pullen Worcs/Herefords, Holmes Birmingham/USA/Canada/Australia, Jackson Cheshire/Yorkshire, Lomas Cheshire, Lee Yorkshire, Cocks Lancashire, Leah Cheshire, Cook Yorkshire, Catlow Lancashire
See my website http://www.cotswan.com

Offline AliMacD

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Military Medal recipients
« Reply #74 on: Sunday 26 July 15 15:33 BST (UK) »
There are not normally citations surviving for MMs.
You could try looking at war diary as a longshot
Thanks for the advice. Is there a site where I could find these?

Offline Redroger

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,680
  • Dad and Fireman at Kings Cross 13.7.1951
    • View Profile
Re: Military Medal recipients
« Reply #75 on: Monday 27 July 15 21:22 BST (UK) »
The War diaries are in the National Archives at Kew. You can find if they have the appropriate diary by using the online catalogue.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)


Offline AliMacD

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Military Medal recipients
« Reply #76 on: Monday 27 July 15 21:47 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for the advice Redroger. I obtained the War Diary but due to heavy casualties that day there is little detail. No mention of any ranks killed, only officers a few days later. Still looking .....!

Offline colfi

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Military Medal recipients
« Reply #77 on: Tuesday 28 July 15 01:21 BST (UK) »
Be aware, the Kew Records office holds very few WW1 war diaries, most were retained by the Regiments (fortunately) the archived ones from WW1 were mostly destroyed in the WW2 Blitz. Kew Records are still trying to sort out a lot of the partially burnt paperwork. Try the Regiment's museum.

I had a similar case with my Father (RFA), he was given a Mention in Despatches at Mons, 1914 and the MM in 1916, yet I could find no mention of the MM apart from the medal cards held at Kew. I did find out that a lot of MM's, earlier than March 1916 (when the MM was first announced) were back dated ones given to some M.I.D recipients later in the war. This may account for the 1918 issue dated 1915. If this was the case then the M.I.D was withdrawn and wouldn't show on the Kew medals cards.

I eventually (luckily last year) found the war diaries at the Royal Artillay museum in Woolwich London. They were on loan to the Museum and had details of the engagements for my Father's M.I.D and MM. As has been said, citations for the MM were given to the receiver but not recorded outside of the diaries.

I was fortunate to find my Father's battery Commander's, Brigade Commander's and the Regimental diaries for the 1914 to 1917 period and all three had full details of him in them. Good luck with the search.

Col

Offline km1971

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,343
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Military Medal recipients
« Reply #78 on: Tuesday 28 July 15 08:51 BST (UK) »
Hi Ali

The 'qualifying date' on his medal card is when he qualified for the 1914-15 Star. It is usually known as the date he 'entered theatre' (of war). There is often a second card with the MM on. But here it looks as if they have added MM in pencil in the top left hand corner.

Here is the link to the colour version on Ancestry - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1262/30850_A001562-00520/5148374?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dMedalRolls%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dpatrick%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dtobin%26gsln_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26uidh%3de13%26pcat%3d39%26fh%3d15%26h%3d5148374%26recoff%3d9%2b10%26ml_rpos%3d16&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Private Tobin's MM was not gazetted until September 1917 - https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30287/supplement/9612

with the start of the section here - https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30287/supplement/9612 - and it is also worth printing off this page - https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30287/supplement/9612

As already said most MMs were awarded without the citation being published. If the Leinster's museum have nothing you should try local newspapers at the time of the gazette entry. There may be a photograph supplied by the family at the time of death as well.

Ken



Offline AliMacD

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Military Medal recipients
« Reply #79 on: Tuesday 28 July 15 17:36 BST (UK) »
Many thanks to Col and Ken for those very helpful pieces. I am now looking at the Regimental websites. Has anyone had joy getting a citation from the Army Medal Office?