58th Regiment of Foot

[mcilroynz]

Cheers.

Here I go...

[oldsoldier]

Can anyone tell me where members of the 58th Regiment who did not go to Ceylon were stationed at in 1834. I am looking for information on Sergeant James Noakes (b.1805 Hastings, enlisted 1822- discharged 1846 NZ). His military record (WO97) does not mention any overseas service, excluding Aus & NZ. He and his family travelled to Australia aboard the ship, Equestrian in 1844.  James was apparently married somewhere in 1834, but we cannot locate any marriage records. I have documents that place him at Brighton, England in 1822 & in Ireland in 1826.  In 1836 he also had a son born and christened in England. However, he seems to have disappeared somewhere between 1826 -1836. I cannot place him in Ceylon which makes me think he was based somewhere in the UK. Did the 58th Head Quarters go to Ceylon, or just the troops? Has anyone got any suggestions about where James may have been stationed in 1834. We would also like to know what he actually did in the army. Was he involved in enlistments or with horses, etc?

[km1971]

The Depot of each regiment stayed in the UK at all times - to carry on finding and training recruits. So roughly about 10% of its strength.

The Depot would have been in Portsmouth when the service companies sailed in June 1828. Most East Indies stationed regiments retained a Depot in Chatham, so it would not surprise me if they moved there shortly after June 1828.

He may have started out as a servant to an officer who stayed behind for example. But you are unlikely to discover why for sure.

Ken

[Lindys]

hi Rich,
            I too am researching my great great great grandfather and I think we have the same man! Do you know if you have Johns as a family name as well? One of Bartholomews daughter`s married a man by the name of Thomas Johns who was a gold miner in Thames. The death in 1870 of Ellen was actually a girl of 10 years old. So possibly one of Bartholomew and Ellen`s daughters.

Lindys

[oldsoldier]

KM1971 - Many thanks for your help Ken. James has a son born Portsmouth in 1836 so the idea that he never went to Ceylon but stayed at Portsmouth and/or Chatham Depot sounds highly likely.

[km1971]

Lindys/Oldsoldier

When you have made three postings you can contact each other via Personal Messages.

The 58th Regiment returned to Gosport/Portsmouth from Ceylon in June 1839, so maybe the Depot stayed in that area rather than moving to Chatham.

Ken

[mcilroynz]

Lindys

Our Bartholomew is a popular man!

Bartholomew’s daughter Margaret married Thomas Johns.  I have Margaret’s DOB as 24.09.1849.

So Bartholomew sails on the William Jardin from London on 1 July 1844 (this is the date in the Hughes’ book although other websites give 11 August 1844 as the departure date which is a little confusing).  Does anyone know where in London it would’ve sailed from?  The Hughes’ book lists all the ships and where they sailed from - for some it specifically mentions Woolwich or Deptford but for others it just mentions London.

Bartholomew’s eldest son James (my great great grandfather) is born 1842 in Chatham, Kent – which I suspect was where the 58th were stationed.  One website records that 7 women and 10 children sailed on the William Jardin.  I suspect James and his mother Ellen are amongst this group.  I can’t begin to imagine what it must’ve been like for a 2 year old to travel all that way (over 4 months) in a wooden ship.  Can anyone direct me to a picture of what one of these late 19th century convict ships looked like?  Can anyone tell me what route they would’ve taken from London to Australia/NZ (around South America or around Africa)?  Would it have stopped anywhere?

The William Jardin (with Bartholomew) arrives Van Diemen’s Land (Hobart) on 20 November 1844.  The guard proceed to Sydney on a different ship.  I understand they were stationed at Paramatta (now the NSW Lancer Barracks).  Then in 1845 Bartholomew sails with the 58th to NZ on board either the HMS Northstar or the brigantine (whatever that is) Velocity.

I’d like to know how Ellen and James got here.  Maybe they initially stayed in Sydney because the 58th return to Sydney in 1846 for garrison duty (except for a detachment that remained at Wellington).  Then the 58th come back to NZ in 1847.  Did the women and children just follow the regiment around?  The birth records of the two children born in this period (John and Jane) may provide some answers.

I suspect Bartholomew fought at Puketutu (Heke’s Pa) and possibly Ruapekapeka (Kawiti’s Pa).

That’s pretty much all I have that is 58th related.

So many questions so few answers!

I’ll send you a PM with other non-58th stuff.  The 1870 Ellen McIlroy BDM reference will be a daughter born 1860.

cheers
Rich

[Lindys]

Hi Rich,
             Yes Bart is a popular man!!!
I think from memory you do have the right birth date for Margaret. Will hunt over the weekend in my records. Margaret married Thomas Johns who was a gold miner then mine manager. I do have info for you, so will send you a pm.

Cheers
            Lindys

[Jaffer]

Greetings fellow McIlroy member. I've been researching this branch of the family for a few years now. My great grandfather was William Francis McIlroy.
This is what I have so far:
Bartholomew I McIlroy, born Mullabrach (as spelt in Discharge papers), married Margaret McGahan. No definite dates of birth, marriage or death. For more information on the 58th, go to: http://www.nzfenciblesociety.org.nz or visit your local library for a copy to read.
They had as far as I can tell, 2 children: Samuel, born 1813 Co Armagh, death 1 September 1884.
I have a marriage for Samuel, to Ann Watson, no reference to marriage but a guess-timate death, about 1878. No clues as to children yet, for this marriage.
Bartholomew II, born Ireland about 1823, death 9 November 1869 at Shortland (Thames). He married Ellen Connor.
From this union, we have 10 children:
1) James McIlroy born about 1843, Chatham, Kent, UK. No date of death, but he married Catherine Murray about 1871. No children identified yet, lots of possibilities.
2) John McIlroy born about 1845, Otahuhu, Auckland, NZ, No date of death, but he married Elizabeth Powdrill. Not confirmed yet, and no mention of children.
3) Jane McIlroy born about 1847, Otahuhu, Auckland, NZ, date of death about 1902. Married twice: 1) John Casey. 2) Owen Brislen. No other details yet.
4) Margaret McIlroy, born about 1849, Otahuhu, Auckland, NZ. No date of death. Married 4 times. a) Thomas Johns. b) James Martin. c) James O'Hara Griffen and d) Arthur Thomas. I've just ordered these marriage certificates to get more information.
5) Patrick McILroy born about 1852, Otahuhu, Auckland, NZ, date of death about 1902. No marriage discovered.
6) Roseanne, born about 1855, Otahuhu, Auckland, NZ, no other details, yet.
7) William Francis McIlroy, born 4 March 1858, Otahuhu, Auckland, NZ, died 14 October 1933 at Ohineakai, East Coast, NZ. Married Harata Takarure Tarapehu and they had 9 children...my lineage.
Ellen McIlroy born about 1860,Otahuhu, Auckland, NZ, died 1870, Hauraki, Coromandel, NZ.
9) Samuel McIlroy born about 1862, Otahuhu, Auckland, NZ. Possible death about 1919.
10) Henry Arthur McIlroy, born 17 Feb 1865 Otahuhu, Auckland, NZ, christened in 1865 and died May 1865. Christening record taken from Catholic Church Register.

I have 60% (??) complete genealogy from William Francis McIlroy through to 2011. If you want to share, drop me an email.