Stamers from Cork

[TeddyP]

According to the 1861 census the following people lived at 45 Marigold Street, Bermondsey, London.

John Thomas STAMERS, born about 1820
Mary STAMERS, born about 1824
Ellen STAMERS, born 1848
John STAMERS, born 1850
Ted STAMERS, born 1852
Michael STAMERS, born 1857

John, Mary, Ellen, John & Michael are all shown on the census as being born in Cork, Ted is shown as being
born in London.

I can't find anything about them in Ireland and wonder whether a mistake has been made (although it seems unlikely that the place of birth would be wrong on all of them).

Could anybody help me out with any information about them or if they appear on any Irish records anywhere.
Unfortunately I do not have any other information about them.

Incidentally, in my family the name is spelt STAMMERS, not STAMERS.

Many thanks
Ted

[skibbgirl]

I just did a wildcard search on my Griffiths Valuation CD using St*mers .  There are two matches in Cork:

Thomas P. Stamers, Esq
Pembroke (Grove Hill), Marmalane

William Stammers
John Street, St. Anne's Shandon

There is a John Stamers in Dublin, in Picketstown in the parish of St. Margarets.

It might depend to some extent on the occupation and financial class of John Thomas Stamers.  His head may or may not have been counted in Griffiths Valuation depending on the type of housing the family lived in.

In the Pigot's 1824 commercial directory, Munster section on CD, page 251, there is a Hatter named Isaac Stamers on Old Chapel Lane.

In Guy's City and County directory of Cork, 1875, page 693, there is a William Stamers, hoop and twig maker, on John Street. 

On page 443 is a Thomas Parsons Stamers, JP, in Passage West.

I did not find anybody spelled Stammers in Pigot's or Guy's.



 

[agho]

Occupation & financial status didn't matter for Griffiths Valuation. Every householder and occupier of land, regardless of size, is listed with a valuation in Griffiths. If a family was not listed  they probably lived with another family member such as a parent.

As Skibbgirl said there were Stamers in Cork see page 245 in the 1844 - 1845 Guys directory on www.corkpastandpresent.ie

[skibbgirl]

I think we are both partly right and partly wrong.  Not every adult tilling or working land was listed.  I was thinking the more monied absentee landlords abroad would not likely have been listed, only noted as the landlord, when in fact it was likely those at the opposite end who would not have been listed.  Many farm dwellings were not counted as "distinct tenements" , depending on the living circumstances (e.g., who was holding the lease).  Someone living in one of those buildings expressly for the purpose of, say, watching over a large pasture and livestock would not have necessarily been listed.

http://genealogical-research-methods.suite101.com/article.cfm/how-to-use-griffiths-valuation-to-trace-irish-ancestors

Although in the case of the Stamers, I don't think that is the problem.

[shanew147]

Based on research of my family I believe there are a few occupations that often are not are included in Griffiths' - e.g. Coastguards, RIC men, certain people working (and living) on estates - e.g. Land Stewards etc



Shane

[agho]

OK I stand corrected. 

[shanew147]

I have not yet found any specific notes from Griffiths time to explain the full details for inclusion yet.. but I presume that in each of the cases I've found the people involved lived on someone else property, and were not recorded separately. I have other details confirming the locations of the families at the time of Griffiths.

At the time the Coastguard was living with his wife and children in a coastguards cottage. The CG station and cottages are  mentioned, but only mention the name of the landlord.

My Land Steward ancestor and his family were living in North county Dublin as a land steward on an Estate. I have baptism and other records confirming this. Griiffiths only mentions the estate owner, as owner of the main property and landlord to a number of other';s in the same area.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any ideas on reasons why a person may not be included on Griffiths.

p.s. sorry for sidetracking your thread TeddyP

p.p.s the Irish Genealogy website was updated last night (http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/) and includes some records for the surname Stammers in co. Cork


Shane

[agho]

Shanew147

that's interesting that your Land Steward ancestor is  not recorded. My grgrgrandfather was Land Steward on the Colthurst Estate, Ardrum, Cork and is listed but my grgrandfather who was a gardener on the Dring Estate, East Cork is not listed, I presumed he was a live-in (although he had a large family)

I was always under the impression that if you had any kind of a hovel anywhere you were listed but now it seems to be a bit random?

[shanew147]

I've a gardener somewhere also - but no sign of him on Griffiths..

I know his daughter married in Cork, but based on the 1901 census she was born in Dublin

I think we need a list of possible exclusions!

p.s. I think my gardener (Andrew Nevin) was working in Blackrock, Cork when his daughter was married there. (he was a witness)



Shane