Solomon Potter & Phebe Banham

[nanu]

Newbie here and my first post. Solomon Potter was my gggg grandfather through his son George. Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but the original post contained my own question: "Likewise Phebe's"

I recently came across a comment from another user on FamilySearch attached to Phoebe, suggesting that 'Banham' should not be the surname since it actually refers to the place of birth. I have done some digging and maintain that it is entirely plausible that she can have the same surname as her place of birth because 1) Banham as a name originates from/is highly concentrated in Norfolk 2) There are plenty of other Banhams in Banham at that time 3) The use of Banham in the registration of her child clearly refers to her maiden name when compared with other entries 4) Even if she used the name for convenience (like others might have done) due to her socio-economic situation or literacy, that is not to say that it was not what she regarded as her surname, and it is not to say that her parents did not also bear the same name for the same reasons.

Nevertheless, I feel unable to restore the name Banham to the FamilySearch profile without being able to refute the comments already made about her. I am trying in vain to find which of the Banhams in the area could have been her parents. It is not especially strange if her birth was not registered, but I would love to know if any information is out there that is not in the usual places. My current hypothesis is that her parents were James Banham and Sarah Flatt since the dates work quite well but I am now wondering if her parents were from a nearby village instead.

On a sideline, I am sure others will also have encountered the other Phoebe Banham married to John Widett also in Banham. Any ideas whether/how the two Phoebes might be related?
[/quote]

Solomon is my Great Great Grandfather and I am very interested in positively identifying him as you will see from my previous posts.

I have Phoebe as being born Phoebe Banham in the parish of Banham on March 10 1812. Father Robert Banham and mother Elizabeth Humphrey who is shown on Phoebes birth registration as being a widow and again on her marriage as being a spinster so I am fairly sure I have the right couple. Phoebe is shown as being Phebe or Phabe, it is unclear but this is repeated on other documents including census docs which she always gives her place of birth as Banham.   

I suspect I may have you on my family tree somewhere?

[Lalzovi]

Thanks so much for your prompt reply. I used to have Robert and Elizabeth as the parents but without having a proper source I ended up deleting them once I saw the comment made on FamilySearch, thinking I must have added them prematurely. I've come back to my tree after a long break and was conscious that there may be several errors that I didn't get round to fixing last time I worked on it.

I still haven't come across Phoebe's birth registration on FS or Ancestry. However, if you have confirmation through a birth registration that's great, and it will also mean I can return her rightful surname and parents to the FS profile.

Quite possibly I'm on your tree, though I am of the youngest generation. If you have Elsie nee Beevers (living), I am her eldest granddaughter. (Not sure what the protocol is here for self-identification - do correct me if necessary)

[sarah]

Hello Lalzovi and welcome to RootsChat

As you may wish to swap details of your living family members you are best to exchange by private message (pm) you do this via a round button below the profile name of the person you wish to send a pm too 

Regards

Sarah

[trish1120]

Welcome to Rootschat Nanu/Lalzovi.

I had a look at the 1812 Baptism (not birth) of Pheobe.

According to the Parish Register image she was born Feb 10th
Daughter of Robert Banham and his wife Elizabeth, late Humphrey Spinster

Robert BANHAM and Elizabeth HUMPHRY married 14 Oct 1811, St James, Great Ellington
Bachelor/Spinster**
Witnesses Robert Smith/John Steel
He signed X. She signed X.

There are no birth regs pre 1837 only christenings/baptisms to be found

Elizabeth was not a widow on Phoebes Bapt 1812.

This may be Robert/Elizabeth in 1851 in Attleborough.
Robert Banham, 62, Head, Mar, Farmer of 7 acres, born Banham
Elizabeth Banham, 10, Wife, Mar, born Rockland
William Brees, 22, Lodger

The image of Census has Elizabeth as 60**


Trish

[trish1120]

Appears to be them in 1841 badly mistranscribed.
In Great Ellingham.

The image is Banham.

Robert Barnhouse, 50, Ag Lab
Elizabeth Barnhouse, 50
William Barnhouse, 20, Carpenter
Sarah Barnhouse, 15
Eliza Barnhouse, 14

Baptism;
15 Jul 1827, St James, Great Ellingham
WILLIAM/ELIZA/SARAH ANNE Banham
Parents ROBERT/ELIZABETH
Father a Labourer
Note on Baptism of William;

No Age Given But Word Aged Written Between Name And Son Of

Burials;
St Mary, Attlenorough
ROBERT Banham 12 Oct 1853 age 65
ELIZABETH Banham 19 Sep 1870 age 79

1861 Census
William Banham, 38, Carpenter
Frances Banham, 42, Wife
Elizabeth Banham, 69, Mother
George Banham, 12, Nephew

There is a Bapt 1849 for George, Mother ELIZA

1851 we have;
Sarah Ann Banham, 26
Eliza Banham, 24
George R Banham, 2
Mary A Banham, 5 mths


All on FreeREG

[trish1120]

Possible Bapt for Elizabeth;
Elizabeth HUMFRIES, 28 Nov 1790, All Saints and St Andrew, Rockland All Saints
Parents GEORGE/SARAH

I can see from online sources only 1 Robert born Banham;
Baptised 26 Nov 1788 (birth 20 Nov 178) to NOAH/ANNE
Mother nee BATLEY
They married 19 Aug 1781

Noah/Anne also Bapt a PHOEBE 18 Feb 1792**

This is likely the Phoebe who married John Windett 1814
Childrens Bapts are on FreeREG and I can find John and Daug Sarah in 1841 Census but Phoebe may have died before then.

EDIT ignore the 1841 Census info i said I had found with possible John/Daug Sarah and that Phoebe may have died before 1841 Census.

(back later)

[nanu]

Wow! well impressed with all that research and much appreciated. Will now find the time and go back to my tree and cross reference.

Wish I have the same level of detail for Solomon.

[trish1120]

Phoebe/John Windett may have immigrated to the United States.

1851 Census   
Lancaster, Worcester, Massachusetts, United States
John Windett      Male   65   England
Phebe Windett      Female 64   England
Robert Windett      Male   21   England (1834)
Francis Thrower      Male   9   Massachusetts, United States

John/Phoebe Bapt Banham;
ANN Windett 29 Oct 1815
ELIZABETH Windet 18 Mar 1818
JOHN Windet 12 Aug 1821
SARAH Windet 18 Feb 1824 (Mother nee Banham)
ROBERT Windet 27 Aug 1826
ELIZA Windett    13 Sep 1829
ROBERT Windett 08 Apr 1834****
Mother is down as Phebe/Phoebe/Phoeby


May just be a coincidence but Roberts Bapt seems to match up.

Anyhow it appears to me the Phoebe Banham 1792 may have married John Windett and be a Sister of your Robert Banham.

[trish1120]

Your welcome, I love the chase

When I have time I will look over your Soloman also