1841 Census: McNiel, Collins (Greenock)

[collins1839]

Looking for any information on the following family in the 1841 Greenock New or Middle Census:
Janet McNiel, age 65 (?)
Malcom McNiel, age 9
Walter Collins, age 2
All are Scotland born. Looks like Nicholson St.

[hume]

Hello, welcome to RC.

This looks like Malcolm's christening in Greenock:

Malcolm McNeil, chr. 30th September 1833 to parents Malcolm McNeil and Janet McLean

Other children to this couple show as Mary MacNiel, chr. 1828 Greenock and Walter Ritchie McNiel, chr. 1819 Greenock.

The parents married 14th November 1815 in Greenock.

hume

[collins1839]

Thank you!  I believe the Walter Collins, age 2, is my great great grandfather who was an early settler of Braddock, Pennsylvania, USA. He kept a diary of the Civil War and was later a baker. He married Agnes Stephens in 1861 (USA). By any chance, do you have any information on the Collins family?

[Maggie1895]

As Hume already said, welcome to Rootschat

Have you had a look at the original 1841 census via Scotland's People? I've only looked at the summary listing on another site, and as you say you have Janet and Malcolm McNeil, and then Walter Collins.   
Immediately below is another couple age 45, John and Margaret McQuarrie.   There an awful lot of people listed in that entry in Nicholson Street, Greenock North, so presumably it is a multi-occupancy building, whether a proper tenement or just a lot of families crammed into a a few rooms.
There's no obvious birth listing for Walter in SP, but it is well before the compulsory registration date so it would be pot luck anyway.
What I was wondering is if you have a definite link to place Walter with Janet McNeil?  Obviously a 2 year old boy is being cared for by someone, is it definitely Janet or could it have been the McQuarrries?
Any idea when he left for the US?   Is it worth searching the 1851 or did he definitely emigrate before that?

p.s. on the transcription I looked at, Janet is given as 45, not 65.

[collins1839]

Thank you!  I don't know of any link to place Walter Collins with Janet McNiel. I knew Walter R. Collins was born in 1839 in Scotland based upon Bible records provided to me by his wife's descendants. I have a book in which he wrote, "Walter Collins, Greenock."  So, I searched the 1841 census and downloaded the only match (in all districts) that came up. It was for Greenock and listed the people I mentioned previously -- Janet McNiel (it could well be age 45), Malcom McNiel and Walter Collins. All three of them are checked "Yes" for born in Scotland, state whether born in the County or otherwise"  I again searched all districts in the 1851 census, but no Walter Collins came up at all (but one match for Janet McNeil and Malcolm McNeil does come up in 1851, in Renfrew). I don't know exactly when Walter Collins emigrated, but I know from the Bible records that he married in Pennsylvania, USA, in 1861. I also don't know of any connection to the McQuarries, but the 1 under "Inhabited" seems to indicate a new family in the same building starting with the McQuarries. I searched the Collins entries on SP newspapers, but no Walter. I saw several Collins people were bakers on Ann St. (not far from Nicholson St.) and that was interesting because my Walter Collins started the first bakery in Port Perry, Pennsylvania, USA, in 1867.

[Maggie1895]

Right, not a simple problem then!   Let me just recap to see if I've got this correct:

Walter Collins, you know for certain, married in the US in 1861, stating a birth year of 1839 and gave his birthplace as Greenock.
The only Walter Collins you can find that fits that is the one in the 1841 census, who is not with his parents.     Absolutely no guarantee that is him, but Walter Collins isn't a name that comes up regularly in that part of Scotland, so it's a fair bet.
No birth in SP comes up for Walter in 1839.

I'm wondering how he got to the States, and who with.    If he came over on his own volition, he would presumably need to be older than 12, so should have still been in Scotland in 1851, but can't be seen.    (I did have a quick look at the 1851 census and like you found Malcolm, or someone that looks to be be him.      No sign of Walter, as you say)     
If, on the other hand, Walter emigrated before 1851 at the age of 12 or younger, then I presume he he must have gone with somebody.  Who?  Malcolm McNeil looks to still be in Scotland.

What I'm wondering, and this is just conjecture:  was there a scheme from Greenock to assist passages for orphans at that time?   I've not heard of one, but no reason why I should.    If any of the Scottish experts read this, perhaps they could answer that?

Second,  - could he have been a grandson of Janet McNeil?   Child of a daughter of Janet's married to a Collins?   Might be worth a search on Scotland's People for a marriage

Have you registered with Scotland's People?   It's a pay per view site but if any records do exist that answer your question about Walter, it's the best place to start

[Maggie1895]

p.s. just realised I'd missed a point in what Hume found - that there was a Walter in the previous generation of McNeils.

(No idea how I double posted just then - nice to have Monica on the case though)

[MonicaL]

Hi

From Hume's details earlier and in particular the name Walter Ritchie McNeil. There are submitted IGI records for Walter and Agnes, wife, which give his full name as Walter Ritchie Collins (not sure what the source for this may be).

On Walter's 1900 US census entry, he gives his birth details as Oct 1839. Unfortunately, he could not remember when he first came to the US, as these general boxes are marked as UN (likely unknown you would think).

Monica 

[MonicaL]

Can't see him in 1860 in the US, but one possible entry in 1850:

Catharine Collins 34 b. Scotland
Walter Collins 11 b. Scotland
John Collins 5 b. New York

Pittsburgh Ward 3, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

So, a window of about 5 years between 1841-46 for family's move to the US?

Monica