re-using graves

[robbo43]

Resomation looks interesting, would like to know what they use though.  I believe freeze-drying in something like liquid nitrogen has also been suggested, the body crumbles to dust.

Robert

[Redroger]

If you've ever seen an archaeological excavation of a graveyard, later burials have often just cut through earlier ones. No respect for the dead.

Robert

Not just a graveyard, the clearance of a crypt in London in the 1980s (I believe Spittalfields) suggested that many of the coffins had just been thrown into the space without ceremony. There are stories too that the late King George VI was not placed in the vault of the royal mausoleum at Windsor in 1952, the coffin was apparently just placed inside, and the door relocked.Out of sight out of mind, the old graveyard at St. Pancras was cleared when the station was built in the mid 19th century, many of the bodies were relocated a second time when the new international rail terminal was constructed there between 2006-8.

[stevieuk]

The problem with cremation is the large amount of fuel it takes to burn a human body, very environmentally unfriendly - not to mention release of mercury, other heavy metals, dioxins etc into the atmosphere. 

Robert

The newer more modern Cremators are more efficient, most of the fuel used is in the process of Pre-Heating the cremators. The efficiency of a cremator is dependent on several factors, No. of cremations taking place per day more cremations = greater efficency. Emission control is very strict & each crematoria must comply with a permit to operate, there are now a number of crematoria that have Filtration (Abatement Plant) fitted to further reduce emissions & remove almost all nasties from the emissions.

At present DEFRA requires a temperature of greater than 850C in Secondary chambers, where Abatement is fitted this temperature is reduced to 800C, making a huge environmental saving.

I could go into some more details, but it`d be better in a separate thread.

Resomation looks interesting, would like to know what they use though.  I believe freeze-drying in something like liquid nitrogen has also been suggested, the body crumbles to dust.

Robert

Resomation, as the process is based on Alkaline Hydrolysis, I`d guess it uses something similar to Caustic soda , which is very Alkaline (PH 13) & just as dangerous as Hydrochloric/Sulfuric  Acid (PH 1).

Freeze-drying is called Promession, & is a much longer process than the 2 methods above, in brief, the body (& coffin) are frozen to -19C for 24 hrs, then dipped in Liquid Nitrogen & then basically shaken to bits, the nasties like heavy metal, mercury etc are removed along with the water, then packaged in a box for burial.

Again all the above are very brief descriptions.

Cremation took many years to become accepted as an environmental way to dispose of bodies, so I guess the other 2 options will take a few years?

Apologises for going off-topic & for the long post, but I could have gone on further.

Regards.

Steve

[Redroger]

That's fine Steve, so far as the UK goes, but I have serious doubts about the efficiency of other jurisdictions across the world, and many of those within the EU. The liquid nitrogen idea sounds OK, but what is the environmental cost of making the nitrogen?
Though liquid nitrogen is used for industrial purposes, I would guess the refrigeration equipment uses a lot of electricity, and therefore fossil? fuel. There is no such thing as a free lunch after all.

[stevieuk]

That's fine Steve, so far as the UK goes, but I have serious doubts about the efficiency of other jurisdictions across the world, and many of those within the EU. The liquid nitrogen idea sounds OK, but what is the environmental cost of making the nitrogen?
Though liquid nitrogen is used for industrial p[urposes, I would guess the refrigeration equipment uses a lot of electricity, and therefore fossil? fuel. There is no such thing as a free lunch after all.

Everything we do where power is required (electricity/Gas) has some impact on the environment.

As I understand things a Resomator costs $400,000, so around £350,000 I`ve no idea as to install costs,  the cost of 1 new/modern cremator £120,00-£140,000, Filtration costs approx £110,000 for a single unit, plus installation so add another £100,000 to be safe... not a lot of difference. Cremation using a New cremator takes 1 1/2 hrs (90 mins) on average, Resomation takes 2-3 hrs, an article I read said 6 hrs, so you`d need 2 resomators to do the same as 1 cremator or 4 if it takes 6 hrs.

As to using Liquid Nitrogen, if you have a Crematorium that does say 10 cremations/day, they`ll require 10 Deep freezers plus how ever many liquid nitrogen units, I`ve no idea of costs, but building size would be quite large I`d presume, you`d also require storage of the nitrogen & the H&S aspects, presumably Spacesuit type gear to protect staff?

Its never as clear cut & simple as some seem to suggest, mainly those who are selling the kit....

[Redroger]

Your last line said it all!!

[stevieuk]

Your last line said it all!!

 

Way, way off topic, but South London Crematorium/Streatham Park Cemetery are having an open day....where would I post something like that, they also hope to raise money for their Charity, would it require Admins permission?

[Suzy W]

Hi

Back to re-using graves.   I should of posted this one ages ago.
My husbands ggg grandfather was buried here at Guiseley.  Some years ago the entire cemetery (coffins and over 500 remains ) were lifted, cleaned, and all remains were placed under this memorial stone on the same grounds, which are now grassed over with a park like setting opposite the local shopping centre.   
Sadly it does not list all who are placed here, but lucky for me I do have a copy of names kindly given to me, thankfully the local council and church did document all headstones.
Suzy W

[dafpilot]

hello susyw,
                    it was so nice to see a memorial that was not covered in graffiti, and the park it self look good, down this end of the world it would have been covered in paint, it's a sad reflection on the world that some people vandalise grave stones and memorials, and at least they did not build a housing estate on the graveyard, 20 years or so ago my sister went to friend's new house for a house warming party, and the friend's small son was playing in the garden and was digging (like small children do) and dug up a skull, which he brought in to his mother not really understanding what it was.
 regards
dafpilot