Shortall - Sir Patrick

[Kilrory]

Hi Dubhlinn / Frank,
I have been following the thread. I have collected a lot of Shortall items. I found a Matthew Shortall in the 1901 census as a 13 year old pupil in an Industrial School Kill Ave Kingstown ( see image). I collected Shortall Births, Deaths and Marriages up to 1900 in the past but could not see a Matthew born in Dublin about 1887 - there is one with the "wrong" parents in Thomastown.
Have you got his marriage cert - that should show his father?
Best wishes

Census - College & Boarding School Return (Form G)  (see line 62)

[DubbLinn]

I have not gotten around to sorting out Matthews marriage certs but he did marry twice. I believe a cousin of mine has his second marriage cert, but he failed to find the first marriage cert and also his birth cert. I have yet to see the marriage cert myself, so at the moment I cannot elaborate any further on that. His first wife Alice O'Gorman was born in New York, but again I dont know if that is where they met or what the exact circumstances were.
In your reply (No.35)  Matthew was in attendance at Sir Patricks wifes funeral.

Also that entry in the 1901 census is most likely our Matthew, it sort of fits into what we were told about his apprenticeship as a carpenter, but not certain.

Sorry but that is all I have at present, still a work in progress.

[Bernied]

As mentioned previously I am in process of tracing my partner Thomas Shortall's family tree.  After a break we are now back to tracing his great grand father ie father of Matthew Shortall (brother of Sir Patrick ). 

Matthews and Patrick's parents  were James shortall and Marcella Dunne. We have their  marriage cert from St Andrews Church Westland Row Dublin dated 7th May 1871.  James Shortall was living at 33 Clarendon St Dublin at this time.  His parents (Matthews grandparents) were Patrick & Anne from Kilkenny.  We know his grandparents were alive at the wedding of James & Marcella in 1871.

Marcella was a widow in the 1901 census.  James died 20th July 1893 age 40.  He was a tailor.  His address at the time was st Michaels' terrace Dublin.  We are trying to trace the Kilkenny roots.  We need  the parish name to get any further.

Also we discovered Matthew my partner's grandfather age 12 was in an industrial school in 1901 in Dublin and despite our best efforts we are unable to discover the reason why.    We have Matthews death cert and have visited his grave in Deansgrange Dublin where he is buried with his first wife Thomas's grandmother Alice O'Gorman.  According to 1911 census Alice was born in NY.  No further information on Alice except she had a sister Mary and her parents were Edward & Mary O'Gorman.  She died age 39 in 1928. 

We would be grateful for any further info on any of the above.

 
Regards

Bernie   

 

[Bernied]

Betty

We have the marriage cert for Matthew Shortall And Mary Doyle who I understand are your grandparents.  Unable to attach.  They were married on 4th Nov 1934 in the Pro-Cathedral in Dublin.   


Bernie

[bettykelly]

hi David
i just know that mathew was my mothers father and sir patrick his brother and i know were the grave is as i have been to it many times sir patricks son is not in that grave my mother told me anyway,there would be other relatives as matthew shortall was a widow when he met my grand mother and he had other children Marcella (known as Irelands grace fields) Matty and not sure of the others but they lived near whitefryer st church they would have had children so there are more of us out there!

Hi Betty225,

Sorry for not replying sooner but I did not get any notification email of your post.

I am a grandson of Matthew Shortall (brother to Sir Patrick). Matthew was Born 1887. Married to Alice O'Gorman about Oct/Nov 1909. Both buried in Deansgrange Cemetry. I don't have any information on his second marriage (as a widower), any more information about his second family would be welcome?
From his 1st marriage he had 2 daughters Marcella and Alice, and 3 sons Matthew (Matty), Andrew (Andy) and Harry. Andy is my father. In the photo here-
http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s343/DubbLinn/Sir%20Patrick/Dad_Grandad_Harry1.jpg  are left to right, Andy, Grandad Matthew and Uncle Harry.
You are correct about where they lived, "near whitefryer st church" I believe the address was in Aungier Street, but they also lived elswhere in Dublin, eg.1911 Census: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/Enaville_Terrace/23355/

Betty

We have the marriage cert for Matthew Shortall And Mary Doyle who I understand are your grandparents.  Unable to attach.  They were married on 4th Nov 1934 in the Pro-Cathedral in Dublin.   


Bernie

[bettykelly]

hi bernie yes your correct they are my grand parents i have been reading all this out to my mother she is loving all this talk about the shortalls. xx

[bettykelly]

hi what a fab photo cant wait to show it to my mother,  yes i just posted up about my mam and angela so you can read that, not to sure how this works anyway matthew married my grand mother mary doyle and than they lived on ormond quey b4 moving to finglas.

Hi Betty225,

Sorry for not replying sooner but I did not get any notification email of your post.

I am a grandson of Matthew Shortall (brother to Sir Patrick). Matthew was Born 1887. Married to Alice O'Gorman about Oct/Nov 1909. Both buried in Deansgrange Cemetry. I don't have any information on his second marriage (as a widower), any more information about his second family would be welcome?
From his 1st marriage he had 2 daughters Marcella and Alice, and 3 sons Matthew (Matty), Andrew (Andy) and Harry. Andy is my father. In the photo here-
http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s343/DubbLinn/Sir%20Patrick/Dad_Grandad_Harry1.jpg  are left to right, Andy, Grandad Matthew and Uncle Harry.
You are correct about where they lived, "near whitefryer st church" I believe the address was in Aungier Street, but they also lived elswhere in Dublin, eg.1911 Census: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/Enaville_Terrace/23355/

[Bernied]

Frank

Thomas and his two brothers Noel and Anthony were delighted with photo you posted.  Thanks.   Have passed your number to Thomas who will be in touch.

Bernie

 

[bettykelly]

hi my mother loved the photo she was remembering stuff from years ago like when her brothers peter and paul died as babies they were twins and she thinks it was andy on a push bike took the babies one at a time to glasnevin cematary to the baby plot. tanx for the photo xxx