James & agnes Disher

[AMBLY]

Got to tear myself away and to bed  - Antipodean time! Or else it'll be me late for the school run in the morning    not that that's never happened before   

Cheers
AMBLY

[MonicaL]

Children in bed, had supper and brain has re-engaged 

I think I have found Thomas Daniel Disher's family. The family look to be Scottish and travelled to the US in 1827 on the 'Brig Tom' arriving in New York on 2 July that year, port of departure shows as Greenock, Renfrewshire. From the manifest we have - everyone born in Scotland:

William Disher 30, joiner
Dianna Disher 31
Margaret Disher 6
William Disher 3
James Disher 1

Then back in Scotland for the 1841 census we have - everyone showing as born in the county:

William Disher 45, Journeyman Joiner
Dianna Disher 40
Margaret Disher 21
William Disher 17, trunk maker
James Disher 13
James Disher 10...two James? maybe on Jane or something similar
Thomas Disher 7
Andrew Disher 5
Janet Disher 3
George Disher 1

Address: High St, Glasgow St Pauls

There is one of the children's births showing on IGI www.familysearch.org which gives mother's maiden name as SHORT (there may be more entries showing on the Old Parish Registers on Scotlands People).

MARGARET DISHER  Birth:06 MAR 1820 Glasgow
Parents: WILLIAM DISHER and DIANA SHORT

The parents' banns/marriage show on 21 AUG 1818 also in Glasgow.

Chris, with Thomas Daniel (likely) having died in Glasgow, his death certificate, if you view it on line on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, will include his parents' names including mother's maiden name and father's occupation if known to the informant.

Monica 

[MonicaL]

Just been trying to find the family in 1851 but no joy 

Showing in Glasgow are Thomas and Mary, the entry we have from earlier and likely entry for brother (we think!) William:

William Disher 28, Packing Box Maker b. Glasgow
Eliza Disher 24 b. Glasgow
William Disher 3 b. Glasgow
John Disher 1 b. Glasgow
Austien Disher    17, brother, tin smith, b. Glasgow
Elizabeth McGee 19, servant b. Ireland
Agnes Meighan 15, servant b. Ireland
Patrick Fagan 31, lodger, mason b. england
John McKay 33, lodger, policeman b. Ross

Address: 76 Gallowgate Str, Glasgow

There is a tree for William above, showing as son to William and Diana Short. Married to an Ann Maria Macreadie who I think may be a second wife. From 1861:

William Disher 37, trunk and packing case maker
Anna Maria Disher 37, b. Ireland
Elizabeth Disher 11
Mary Disher 2
Hugh Disher 4
Margaret Sibbald 30, servant

Address: 184 Gallowgate St, Calton Glasgow

This tree on Ancestry is quite sparse. William Snr is showing as having died in 1845 and mother Diana in 1843 - the source of the info is not shown.

Monica 

[MonicaL]

James Disher's mother Mary Ann Reid, looks to have lived to a fine age, dieing in Scotland, from general searches, in 1905 (birth year of 1825). A Mary Disher/Reid shows as having died in Galashiels, Selkirkshire that year.

Ambly has already posted her entry in 1871, a few years after husband Thomas' death in 1865. This looks like her in 1881, transcribed as Disker on the index I am looking at:

Jane Morton 65, Winder In Woolen Mill, b. Ireland
William Morton 24, tweed weaver b. Glasgow
Eliza Morton 30, tweed weaver b. Glasgow
Jane Morton 29, tweed weaver b. Glasgow
Mary Disker 56, sister, Winder In Woolen Mill, b. Ireland

Address: Galashiels, Selkirkshire

Mary alone in 1891:

Mary Dishart, 67, Woolen-Winder, b. Ireland
Address: 13 Elm Row, Galashiels

Life not so good by 1901, not long before her death in 1905. She shows as living at the Mossilee Road Combination Poor House in Galashiels. Her entry somewhat messy in the way it has been transcribed (name and age), the original would hopefully be clearer:

Mary Reid Dislur, 44, Woollen Yarn Winder b. Ireland

Monica

[AMBLY]

Wow Monica - that's some good finds; certainley them, I'd say. (William & Dianna)   So there's certainley a lot of DISHERs now for Chris to try 'follow' down.

No closer to dechiphering Elizabeth Sunderlan McKenzie ROSS though....or her mother. Can't find a thing that even resembles a bell ringing!

So this is what we have and haven't found with James DISHER and his siblings, I think?

1. William DISHER b abt 1850
1851 with parents in LNK
1861 with parents in LNK
Post 1861?

2. James DISHER b abt 1854; Engineer
1861 with parents in LNK
1871? (not with mother, who is in Stirling with brother Andrew)
1881?
1882-1886?
1886-1898 children x 6 born in Australia
1898 Died in Australia

3.  ANDREW DISHER Birth: 21 FEB 1856 Calton, Glasgow
1861 with parents in Lanarkshire
1871 with mother in Sterlingshire
1881?
1888 married Helen Geddes in Lanarkshire
1891 Partick Lanarkshire with wife
1901 Byker Northumberland with wife/children

4. THOMAS DANIEL DISHER Birth: 23 FEB 1858 Calton, Glasgow
1861 with parents in Lanarkshire
1871 with cousin, the Alexander SHARP's  in Lanarkshire
1881 boarding with the SHARP's in Lanarkshire
1886 Married in Australia
1887-1900 Children x 6, born in Australia
1908 Died in Australia

5. ADAM REID DISHER Birth: 28 FEB 1860 Calton, Glasgow
1860 - prob died Calton Glasgow (SP Index search)

6. JOHN SWANSTON DISHER Birth: 31 JUL 1861 Calton, Glasgow
1865 - prob died  Calton Glasgow (SP Index search)

7. MARGARET REID DISHER Birth: 22 JUN 1863 Calton, Glasgow
1871?
1879 Poss died age 15 in Lanarkshire (but not registered Calton Glasgow)

and Elizabeth's mother, not much luck with her either:
Agnes McDonald ROSS
Born abt 1861 Scotland(from Death registration 1924 age 63)
Father : ROSS (ditto)
Mother Jean McDONALD (ditto)
Supposed to be an Innkeepers daughter
Supposed to be in Gateshead visting her husband James, when Elizabeth was born 8 Mar 1886 - Agnes & John had a son born in Australia in that year - technically possible to have had another child by the end of 1886 -  what was James's exact dob in 1886?
Supposed to have come to Australia, with her husband when dau Elizabeth was 18mnths old.
Supposed to have buried twins prior to coming to Australia (unknown if these twins were born after Elizabeth or not).

Hmmm - Chris, I wonder, if any of the full BDM's on any of Agnes'  Australian born children, do they contain any information at all on their mother that might differ from what's so far supposed? Have you got her actual death certificate to see what else it may contain?

Cheers
AMBLY

[MonicaL]

Hi Ambly

Great summary 

This might be daughter Margaret in 1871, with the surname down as Diker:

John Swanston 48, Cotton Farm Double Master Employ 90 Perple, b. Glasgow
Margaret Swanston 16
William Swanston 15
John Swanston 12
William Swanston 72, father, Cotton Farm Doubler, b. Glasgow
David Swanston 46, brother, Cotton Farm Doubler, b. Glasgow
Jane McDowal 28, servant
Margaret McDowal 23, servant
Margaret R Dicker 8, resident b. Glasgow

Address: 1 Grafton Sqr, Glasgow

We had the son of Thomas Disher and Mary Reid b. 1861 called John SWANSTON Disher. I am guessing that the John Swanston Snr. above was Mary Reid Disher's brother in law. Some IGI birth entries showig for the children above to a John Swanston and Margaret Reid - also the name of Thomas and Mary's daughter, Margaret Reid Disher, born in 1863.

Monica

[MonicaL]

The only Agnes Ross showing in Scotland on IGI with mother a MacDonald (so happens first name Jane) is this one:

AGNES ROSS  Birth: 07 APR 1858 Anderston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland - parents Thomas and Jane McDonald (married on 11 DEC 1857 in Anderston, Glasgow).

This census entry made me think she may have died young - however I cannot see a death for her on SP up to 1861:

Thomas Ross 26, cabinet maker b. Ayr, Ayrshire
Jane Ross 23, b. Glasgow
Margaret K Ross 1, b. Glasgow
Jane Ross 6 Months b. Glasgow

Address: 43 South Coburg St

For a young couple, the last child showing to them as born in Scotland is Jane in 1860. Perhaps either parent died or they left Scotland.

Monica

[MonicaL]

  Just found this in 1861. Could this be Agnes staying with maternal grandparents that year:

John McDonald 56, house painter b. Edinburgh, Mid Lothian
Berthia McDonald 50 b. Spakout (?spl), Dumbarton
Berthia McDonald 27, b. Helsintz, Dumbartonshire
Catherine McDonald 16, b. Glasgow
Agnes Ross 3 granddaughter b. Glasgow
Archibald Love 22 son in law, confectioner b. Glasgow
Euphemia Love 24 b. Helensburg, Dumbarton
John Love 11 Months, grandson b. Glasgow

Address: 8 Pembroke Street, Anderston, Glasgow

Chris, the marriage cert for Thomas Ross and Jane McDonald would let you confirm it is the right family for Jane McDonald (assuming at all times it is the right Agnes!)

Monica

[KirstyG]

Jane McDonald born to John McDonald and Bethia McAuslin March 1838 Barony (IGI)

Looks likely then Monica