Where were they in 1861?

[Latina]

Hi,
In 1871 Thomas Moses and his sons were living in Brithdir Terrance, Gelligaer. The census entry (RG10/5388) shows:
Thomas Moses, Head, 43, Coal Miner, born Bedwas (Monmouth)
George Moses, son, 18, Coal Miner, born Bedwellty
Gwilym Moses, son, 16, Coal miner, born Bedwellty
Edwin Moses, son, 14, Coal miner, born Bedwellty
Lewis Moses, son, 12, Scholar, born Bedwellty.

I would like to find the 1861 entry for the family showing (hopefully) Thomas' wife still alive. For some reason I can't find it!

If anyone with more experience/ common sense can track it down, I would be most grateful for the family's details!

Thank you!

[Arranroots]

Hi Latina

I haven't checked the precise area but I know that quite  few records are missing from the 1861 census for south Wales.  Could be that your folk are among the missing?

Kind regards, Arranroots 


Edit: these are the missing pieces (nationwide)

145
407
903
1234
4015
4131
4196
4344

Some other pieces are partially damaged and therefore bits missing.
219 601 1039 3388 4022 4137 4291 4389

[Latina]

Hi Latina

I haven't checked the precise area but I know that quite  few records are missing from the 1861 census for south Wales.  Could be that your folk are among the missing?

Kind regards, Arranroots 

I didn't know that - it would certaily explain why I can't find them!
Fingers crossed I'm just not looking in the right place, or there's some kind of anomaly which means my searches haven't thrown them up!
Thanks for your reply!
Latina

[Arranroots]

I've added the pieces above - and had another look but not located them.

Another possible explanation is that Gwillym's mother married Mr MOSES between 1861 and 1871, in which case they would appear with a different surname - have you found birth registrations?  A birth cert would give mother's name.

A 

[Arranroots]

Me again! 

This looks like your man (picked on him cos his name is more unusual)

Birth

Gwillim Moses

1853 Mar Quarter

Merthyr Tydfil

Volume 11a   Page 305

[Latina]

Me again! 

This looks like your man (picked on him cos his name is more unusual)

Birth

Gwillim Moses

1853 Mar Quarter

Merthyr Tydfil

Volume 11a   Page 305

Hi,
Thank you so much for all this info!
Unfortunately, there is also a 'Gwelym Moses' listed for Abergavenny 1854 (typical!!!). I suppose the problem with this type of name is the many spelling variants - especially on census records!
Really appreciate the list of missing/ damaged pieces,
Kind regards,
Latina

[osprey]

if the birth place of Bedwellty is correct, he should be the one registered in Abergavenny

registrations of the brothers, all Abergavenny

George Moses march qtr 1853 vol 11a pg 111
Edwin Moses sept qtr 1856 vol 11a pg 111
Lewis Moses sept qtr 1858 vol 11a pg 113

1851 possible for Thomas in Bedwellty HO107/2448 folio 19 pg 11
possible marriage reg dec qtr 1851 Abergavenny vol 26 pg 39

[Latina]

if the birth place of Bedwellty is correct, he should be the one registered in Abergavenny

registrations of the brothers, all Abergavenny

George Moses march qtr 1853 vol 11a pg 111
Edwin Moses sept qtr 1856 vol 11a pg 111
Lewis Moses sept qtr 1858 vol 11a pg 113

1851 possible for Thomas in Bedwellty HO107/2448 folio 19 pg 11
possible marriage reg dec qtr 1851 Abergavenny vol 26 pg 39

Thank you Osprey! Yes, I completely agree.
I have checked the death dates of Gwillim and Gwelym and the former died before the 1871 census, so there's no doubt that the Abergavenny guy is the correct one.
I too have the 1851 entry as the most likely for Thomas and the marriage would fit perfectly with place and arrival of their first child.... but there are 4 possible brides!!
I suppose it will take a birth certificate to give me his wife's name if there definitely is no 1861 entry surviving!

Thank you so much for taking the time to look into this for me,
Regards,
Latina

[Arranroots]

Well done both - sorry if I inadvertently mislead you, Latina!