Archibald Lynch

[samtheskull]

Monica, will you marry me?    You put Jessica Flether & Miss Marple to shame!


Yes, I agree, the post on Bridget's death does suggest her son John was local, but I've hadn't been able to find him. I have the 1861, 1881, & 1981 census images for Bridget, but can't find her in 1871.

I also have Charles Boyle and Mary Porter's marriage cert. It lists Mary's father as John Porter, Labourer, dead, not William, although her birth cert lists it as William. However, thinking about it, her mother Bridget had remarried to John Burns by this point, which could be the reason for the mistake. (Mary married in 1858, but her half-sister Helen Burns was born in 1857).

(As we have so many Johns, I'm adding a generation mareker - William is {a}, his children are {b} etc)

An alternative is that William {a} was his middle name. We know from his marriage his father was John. Perhaps he was John William Porter, and went by William to avoid confusion?

Yes John {c} (William {a} and Bridget's grandson) was in Grangemouth circa 1892 to 1894, presumably working at the shipyard there. There are still a few Porters in Grangemouth today, but I don't think there's a link.

He was born in Ireland around 1864.

So  you've found his father, John {b} - that's brilliant! We know his (presumably) 1st wife was Martha Galbraith or Lawrie from John's {c} marriage and death certs. Time to get some more credits on SP...

On William's {c} and Janet's {c} birth certs it gives John {b} and Agnes' marriage as 29/09/1891 in Falkirk.


Putting it all together (I've just checked all the births, deaths and marriages on SP - it took a while, and I found another wife (no wonder he started having kids at 14!));

Timeline for John Porter {b}

John Porter {b} born 14/10/1848, Raphoe, Co Donegal
John Porter {b} baptised 03/11/1848, Raphoe, Co Donegal

John Porter {b} married Martha (Galbraith on John's {c} death or Lawrie on John's {c} marraige)
John Porter {c} born 1864, Co Donegal

Martha dies circa 1864-1872

John Porter {b} married Margaret Hislop, 04/07/1872, Greenock
Margaret Porter born 02/02/1873, Greenock
Sarah Porter born 12/08/1874, Greenock
William Porter {c1} born 29/11/1876, Greenock
Mary Porter born 11/05/1879, Greenock
Charles Porter born 12/11/1882, Greenock

Margaret dies 13/06/1883, Greenock, of Pneumonia

John Porter {b} married Mary Bain, widow of James Currie, 14/03/1887, Greenock
Susan Porter born 12/04/1888, Greenock

Mary dies 16/10/1889, Greenock, of Pneumonia

John Porter {b} married Agnes Munro 11/10/1891, Falkirk (subsequent births all state marriage was 29/09/1891 - given John's numerous weddings, we can forgivehim getting the date wrong)
Janet Porter born 13/08/1892, Grangemouth
William Porter {c2} born 09/11/1893, Grangemouth
Joseph Porter born 16/10/1895, Govan

John {b} dies 28/03/1916, Greenock, of 'Senile Sebilitic'? & Enlarged Prostate & Retention of Urine

Agnes dies 08/01/1957, Alloa, of Congestive Cardiac Failure (notified by son-in-law John Clark, 104 Greenfield Street, Alloa)


Timeline for John Porter {c} for comparison

John Porter {c} born 1864, Co Donegal
John Porter {c} married Elizabeth McDermott 08/12/1884, Rothesay
John McDermott Porter {d} born 05/01/1885, Rothesay
James Campbell Porter born 09/09/1886, Bowling
Elizabeth Campbell Porter born 17/02/1888, Bowling
Martha Galbraith Porter born 22/02/1890, Polmont
William Porter {d} born 03/03/1892, Grangemouth
Thomas Campbell Porter born 24/01/1894, Grangemouth
Richard McDermott Porter born 02/03/1896, Greenock
Margaret Ford Porter born 22/01/1898, Greenock
George Smith Porter born 17/06/1900, Greenock
Charles Brown Porter born 09/08/1902, Greenock
John Porter {c} died 27/03/1932, Greenock

John Porter {c} dies 27/03/1932, Greenock
Elizabeth McDermott dies 05/05/1950, Greenock



Sugarbakers, I'm attaching the informant part Eleanor (Helen)'s death cert to see if you think it is John Corns?;

[MonicaL]

Goodness, you have been so busy on SP, remortgage app in the post

You have the family now don't you for your direct line to William and Agnes. I am really happy that we broke through there to make the link. You also a whole bunch of half siblings to your John b. 1864 to follow up....will keep you busy for a while 

John (b) b. 1848, did his DC name all four wives or just from Margaret Hisplop? Did it show Martha as wife? I only ask because, given the ages, John (b) and Martha may not have married so you may be searching for a birth/christening in Ireland under Lawrie/Galbraith, if John's 1863/4 birth was illegitimate.

Do you have a subs to A/try? Someone has a family tree for Margaret Hislop. The surname seemes to vary to Hazelton. More details on her ancestors are on that tree under Hazelton.

We should all be open to all forms of spellling variations and movements of names over time....

By the way, this is a great site for first name variants which has a strong bias to Scottish names:

www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=biddy

Monica 

[sugarbakers]

Yes, I read that as Corns.

Looking at FamilySearch there's a possibility that Corn/Corns may be a corruption of Corran.

I've been searching for the connection ... 'uncle' ... but so far can't find John Corn's marriage to Rossan, however there is a marriage of a John Corran to Elizabeth Porter, 17, d/o William Porter, at the aforementioned Raphoe, Donegal, 18 May 1852 (FamilySearch).

Might this be William & Bridget's first child and maybe a Corn connection.

In fact, is this the John Corns, the informant (actually Eleanor/Helen's brother-in-law rather than uncle) ... so my suggestion of John Corn the sugarbaker may not be correct  .

[MonicaL]

That is a really good proposal, sugarbakers    Rossann (Rose Ann etc) could have been a first wife to John Corn/s (with all variations) pre 1851. Might explain why we can see no trace of John and Rossan in later censuses if he went back to Donegal potentially and married Elizabeth Porter (all guess work, but sometimes that is all we have  ).

Monica

[samtheskull]

My head hurts... 


On John Porter's {b} DC it just list Agnes as his wife, but she is the informant, so I wouldn't have thought she would have listed his first 3 marriages.

Yes, I have considered that - I've been looking for a Martha Lawrie or Martha Galbraith for years. Unfortunately Donegal was badly affected by the Four Courts Fire, so we may just never know. I am planning a trio to Raphoe at some point to see if I can find out more.

I used to have an ancestry sub, but let it lapse. I have GenesReunited on an annual sub, and have a one-month sub on RootsIreland until 06/11/14, as they've just switched from a credits system to subs, so I got a discount using my leftover credits.

I'll maybe get a one-month sub on ancestry. Do you have a link to the tree? Also, you mentioned a tree for William & Bridget;

An online family tree for this family of William and Bridget show their children, up to Eleanor in 1854, all baptised in Raphoe, Co. Donegal. Some original sources included there.

Sugarbakers, I found the marriage you mentioned on RootsIreland. See attached. Uncle may have been used more loosely that it is nowadays. For example, son-in-law originally meant a stepson. Given that he was at least 23 years older than Eleanor (he was over 21 in 1852), it would make sense.

However, I also found a John Curran and Rose Ann Carson (attached).

[MonicaL]

That is a great find of the marriage of John Curran to Elizabeth Porter. I would think that is the marriage. Some children showing for them in Scotland, all in Greenock:

Sarah 1861 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ4N-FJF
Susan 1864 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ4N-SK3
John 1865 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQG2-G3R
Joseph 1866 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F73P-G9N

I think this is them in 1861 in Greenock:

John Corren 28 Quay Labourer b. Ireland
Betty Corren 25 b. Ireland
Mary Corren 7 b. Ireland
Elizabeth Corren 2 b. Ireland

Address: 6 Smith's Lane, Greenock....which is the address we first pick up on for the reporting of baby Eleanor's death. Bridget still there in 1861 and her family entry.

sugarbakers, don't think the 1851 we discussed earlier is correct now but without your initial find, not sure we have easily found Elizabeth, eldest (?) born daughter of William and Bridget.

Monica

[MonicaL]

On John Porter's {b} DC it just list Agnes as his wife, but she is the informant, so I wouldn't have thought she would have listed his first 3 marriages.

Scottish death certs very often include the name of previous spouses and in order of marriage which can be really helpful. However, with the expection of Martha's relationship (still not sure of a marriage there  ) the rest of John's marriages you have been able to verify really.

Monica

[MonicaL]

For the Currans, 1871:

John Curran 40 labourer . Ireland
Elizabeth Curran 36 b. Ireland
Mary Curran 17
Teresa Curran 15
Joseph Curran 4

Address: 32 Sugarhouse Land, Greenock

Elizabeth Porter Curran I think died the following year in 1872 in Greenock.

Monica

[sugarbakers]

sugarbakers, don't think the 1851 we discussed earlier is correct now but without your initial find, not sure we have easily found Elizabeth, eldest (?) born daughter of William and Bridget.

Agreed, Monica. A different family altogether, but, as you say, it helped the research.

The Porter/Brogan tree on A**y shows Elizabeth as eldest child born close to parents marriage (1835), which matches her age at marriage and on the censuses.