Identifying crests

[Kathy Duncombe]

Some elderly family friends of mine bought a silver teapot recently with the attached crest on it. They would very much like to know more about it, and to which family it may have belonged. Maybe you could help them please?

On the bottom of it it has William 1V London 1830-31 Barnard Brothers?

In the approximate shape of a four leaf clover they have drawn top left E - top right F - bottom left J - bottom right W and in the middle B.   

There is also a shield shape mark with a U in the middle.
Another squarish mark with what looks like George written on it, and another oval mark with what looks like a cat or lion in the middle.

Any advice or suggestions would be sincerley appreciated.

[behindthefrogs]

I can't find the crest in any of my reference books.

You have also described the hallmark.  To tell you much about it we really need a picture.  If it is a lion's head then it is a London Hallmark.

The U is a date mark but the date can only be determined from the actual script used, upper or lower case and the shape of the shield.  It also changes if my London guess is wrong.

The clover leaf is the manufacturers mark but again I can't find it in my reference book.  Try searching online for hallmarks

David

[lochee]

Hi,
Two useful references
www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/index.htm
www.silverhallmarks.org.uk

Bob.

[old rowley]

The E.E.J.W. stands for Edward/Edward (junior)/ John/and William. The B in the centre of these initals represents their surname of Barnard. Edward Barnard was a noted silversmith in London and he had his own company which lasted from 1829 to 1910, In 1910 the company name was changed from Edward Barnard & Sons to Edward Barnard & Sons Ltd.

If you could add a photograph of the silver marks it may help in dating it and, like David, I have looked in my reference books and can not locate the crest.

OR.

[Valda]

Hi

Welcome to Rootschat

This is a period when there were according to the College of Arms 'spurious' crests/arms in existence. I have one attached to my surname - with various variations created by a family with the same surname in the second half of the C18th.

The coat of arms appears in Burkes General Armoury published in 1842

'Burke's general armoury is a vast compendium in the form of a published book of coats of arms from all ages. It was published in the 19th century, first published in 1842, and it's a very useful guide to heraldic usage. It lists coats of arms by surname, but it provides no sources and there's a lot of duplication, a lot of errors, and it's of no official authority. Therefore, it's very useful as a guide to which coats of arms would be used by rich families, but it cannot be relied upon to show which families have a right to a coat of arms.'


Regards

Valda

[behindthefrogs]

The presence of the wreath indicates that the engraving is of a crest (from on top of the halmet) rather than part of the shield from a coat of arms.  It is also as far as I can gather from an engraving, a correctly implemented crest.

These facts make it much more likely that it is genuine.  If we can date the hallmark this might help although the crest could always have been engraved later.

David

[Kathy Duncombe]

Thanks to all the replies. I will get busy on suggestions made. Our friend left a photo of the crest as per photo but only drew the markings  on the back. Will see if he can send me a photo.

Thanks folks. Kathy

[Kathy Duncombe]

Thanks to all the replies re my quest to identify family crest. I now have a photo of the trio, cream jug, tea pot and sugar bowl, which I will try to upload. Maybe that will help, although he does know about the markings. It is the identity of the family crest my friend is most interested in. All advice and help welcome. Thanks - Kathy

[Annie65115]

Just had to say that that's a beautiful set of tableware