Benjamin Williams Llwynglas *COMPLETE*

[Morganllan]

Hello

I'm trying to find Benjamin Williams born ca 1849, in 1881 and earlier:

In 1891 to 1911 Benjamin was at Llwynglas, Pontantwn, Llangendeirne, Carmarthen with his wife Jane and various children (but a John Charles and family were at Llwynglas in 1881).

Llwynglas 1891 children: Mary, John, David, William
RG12 Piece: 4515 Folio: 24 Page:  6

Llwynglas 1901 children: Benjamin, Elizabeth
RG13 Piece: 5110 Folio: 53 Page:  7

In 1911 Benjamin and Jane were said to be married 25 years, so probably about 1885/6. Children with them at Llwynglas in 1911: David and Elizabeth
RG14PN33009 RG78PN1892 RD599 SD1 ED16 SN71             

From the children's ages in 1891, e.g. Mary b1880 and John b1883, I suspect that Benjamin may have married twice.

Benjamin died in 1919 age 70 and is buried at Meinciau near Kidwelly, with his son Benjamin who died 1913 age 20, and daughter Elizabeth Bowen who died 1921 age 24. Can't tell if Jane is there too due to condition of the stone. Daughter Mary is buried at Croesyceiliog although I haven't found the grave.

I'm wondering whether this could be Benjamin in 1881 with first wife Margaret at Cloigin Fach, Llangendeirne in 1881. This place is very close to Llwynglas.
Children Thomas, Anne, and Hannah.
RG11 Piece: 5393  Folio: 137 Page: 12     

The family know that Benjamin had a son Thomas, as well as John, Benjamin, Mary, David, and Elizabeth. Although Benjamin was a coal miner 1891 onwards, he could have had a different occupation prior to that. His birthplace and age also change between census records, but I think he was born around 1849 based on his gravestone.

It's difficult because they have different children with them at each census. With the surname Williams this is not going to be an easy one to crack, but I know that it's not impossible.

Many thanks
Morgan
 

[z]

Hi Morganllan

Apologies if you have this already but could this be his marriage to Jane

Benjamin Williams - Jane Davies
Year of Registration 1887
Qtr April - May - June
District Carmarthen
Volume 11a
Page 1196

Will keep looking.

Regards

Z

[z]

Hi Morganllan

Have been going round in circles with this one and I haven't quite worked it out but thought I would post what I have found. If the marriage of Benjamin to Jane in 1887 is correct then it would tie in nicely with the birth of David Williams b 1888 and would help to support your theory that Mary b 1880 and John b 1883 were children of a previous marriage. I also looked into a marriage of Benjamin and Margaret and found there was a marriage in 1875 District Carmarthen Volume 11a Page 1362 her maiden name was .................... Williams!!!! Which again would tie in nicely with the 1881 census info you have as I note their first son Thomas b 1875. So using this I then started to look for a death of Margaret from 1881 to 1887 and found only one possibility Margaret Williams birth abt 1856 - death Sep 1886 Carmarthen Vol 11a Pge 494.

I haven't had much luck I'm afraid in finding an alternative Benjamin Williams in the 1881 census other that what you have already found, but did note that both Mary Williams in the 1891 census and Hannah Williams in the 1881 census would have both been born in 1880?

Anyway I hope this makes sense.

Regards

Z

[Morganllan]

Thanks for looking, Z 
I too have been going round in circles!
There are several Benjamin Williams around in 1881 but none that fitted as well as the one I mentioned. I think I need a trip to look at parish records, but they were probably Non-conformist as they are buried in a Chapel graveyard.

Any further thoughts would be very welcome.
Morgan

[Morganllan]

....did note that both Mary Williams in the 1891 census and Hannah Williams in the 1881 census would have both been born in 1880?

Mary's age was incorrect on 1891 Census as I have her memorial card. She was 22 when she died in Summer 1904, so born 1882. Her brother William died in infancy in 1891.

[z]

Hi Morganllan

So Mary was born in 1882 that explains why I couldn't find her in the 1881 census!!
I have been trying once again to piece some of this information together using the census and I have come up with nothing I'm afraid  , although I did find an alternative marriage date for a Benjamin Williams and Margaret in 1873 Oct/Nov/Dec Carmarthenshire Vol 11a, Pg 1511, there are two Margarets listed, a Dyer and a Davies. You probably have this already but I did find a Margaret Davies b 1853 Llangunnor RG9 Piece 4134 Folio 29 Pg 1, and I noted with interest that her fathers name was Thomas, could be something and nothing but thought I would send it on. I agree with you and believe that Mary and John are of a previous marriage as there is quite a gap between John b 1883 and David b 1888. Thoughts are that if you are unable to find anything amongst census information, perhaps you could pinpoint a birth for Mary in 1882 and obtain her certificate?

All the very best and good luck

Regards

Z

[Morganllan]

Thank you, Z
It's a difficult one to crack because the names are so common! Trying to find births for Thomas, Mary, and John Williams in Carmarthenshire...but I'll keep trying. Think I've found Thomas in 1901: boarder at Carmarthen with Anna Davies; he was a Carpenter, which fits with what we know. I've also got burial details for quite a few members of the family, as I discovered that they are buried at Meinciau.

Thanks again
Morgan

[z]

Hi Morgan

Was wondering have you tried contacting the GRO? As you mention that you have the memorial card of Mary who died in 1904 which gives her birthdate roughly about 1882, given this info and without a reference number the GRO will search the indexes for the year in which you tell them the event occurred, and if necessary a year either side. You will need to provide the GRO with as much information as possible about the person on the certificate you are trying to obtain, for a birth: full name, date of birth, place of birth and if known the parents' names, including the mother's maiden name. Not sure whether there is an additional fee for this but thought it was worth a mention.

All the best

Regards

Z

[Morganllan]

Sorry for delayed reply z 

I usually deal with the local register office as their local knowledge helps find the correct certificate. Just trying to limit the number I buy 

I'm on the trail of the graves and visited Jane's grave in the late summer but failed to find Benjamin's, which supports the theory of Benamin's re-marriage. Will visit again next year and hopefully find it.

Kind regards
Morgan