William DUNN born circa 1791 in Tiverton

[Jiminwales]

I am looking for William DUNN born circa 1791 in Tiverton according to the 1841 census

He was aged 50 and was a Shoemaker living in Quicks Court, Tiverton, Devon

Can Anyone help??

We are trying to establish his children and indeed when and who he married

We do know his wifes first name was Ann

Thanks in advance

[Darwin]

1851 census indicates that both William and Ann were born in Bradninch, Devon although it's a poor entry. I would look in the parish records for their marriage and any subsequent children. Unfortunately, it's not covered by IGI and I can't see an OPC - maybe request a look-up here. The census seems to show the youngest children born in Tiverton.

1851 Census Tiverton

William Dunn Head 70 Lab. born Bradninch Devon
Ann wife 65 born Bradninch Devon
M dau 20 Lace maker born Tiverton
C dau 18 Lace maker born Tiverton

I presume M and C are Matilda and Charlotte from the 1841 census.

[bobpen]

My grandfather, Robert George Dunn was born and christened in Bradninch and died and is buried in Wambrook, Somerset when my mother was about 14. That would be about 1924. Mother told me her dad was around 40 when he died, so born around 1880 (pneumonia?). In the 1911 Census he is recorded as 'waggoner on farm'. My mother is listed as a baby (b. Nov 1910) with two older sisters and wife Jane (nee Kingsland). The address was given as Cottleigh, Ottery St Mary; whether that fits with mother's statement that she was born at Tipton St John (only a few months earlier) I don't know. The only Cottleigh I have found is further east and hardly Tipton or Ottery. The middle sister told me she was born at Great Well, Ottery

Later on there was a son, William who died in his early 20s, about 1942, buried with his mother at Rockbeare.

I recall checking the Bradninch church registers in Exeter Records Office some years ago and found that a large number of young people including grandfather were christened together on Christmas Day (local tradition?). I am now 76 and another Robert, and may have lost the notes I made then. If we had the date that might help - but maybe the children were of different ages...

If any of this seems relevant, please leave a note here and I will try to find any other information that may have survived. Judging by my mother's account of their many homes I would guess that RGD was in the habit, choice or necessity, of moving on pretty regularly from farm to farm but that does not necessarily mean that his father, whoever he was, was of the same inclination.

Good hunting!

BP

[JaneyCanuck]

In case you were wanting a check on the information about your mother and her family (her father is George in the 1911, it helps to know) -- her birth was registered in March quarter 1911, in Honiton registration district (where they are living in 1911). Honiton covers Ottery St Mary and Cotleigh (spelled with one 't'! as it is on the 1911 census form):
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/honiton.html

I don't quite understand the 1911 census, which says "Cotleigh Ottery St Mary", since Cotleigh and Ottery St Mary are actually on opposite sides of Honiton. I think the way I see it transcribed (in two places) is probably correct (although I don't know where it came from on the form): the address was Cotleigh Cottage, Ottery St Mary. So they didn't actually live in Cotleigh, but rather in Ottery St Mary.

(I understand there is some rule against 1911 census lookups here. This isn't a lookup, as bobpen already had the information: it's me trying to sort it out for myself in order to look further back.)


In the 1881 and 1891 censuses, Robert George's parents are Robert and Ann. Father Robert was born c1852-3 in Whimple, Devon (where they are living in 1891).

Unfortunately, father Robert is not with his own family in the previous censuses. In 1871 he is a servant, and in 1861 he is with an uncle in Ottery St Mary: William Dunn, a tailor, born c1823 in Whimple. Two of Robert's sisters (at least, two nieces of William) are also there: Jane c1855 and Harriett c1859. This does suggest they had been orphaned. (It is possible that Robert c1862 was the son of unmarried parents and had his mother's surname, but since he appears to have two sisters as well, this would seem unlikely.)

In 1851, William c1823 (the uncle of Robert c1852, Robert George's father) is with his parents William, born in Uffculme, and Jane, and has brothers Robert c1834 and Thomas c1839 and sister Mary c1837, and there is a grandson John J aged 1.

The family is in Whimple in 1841, with father William c1791, a tailor, and no sons other than those shown in 1851. However, the couple in 1841 could have had other sons who had left home by then. For example, there is a Samuel Dunn c1816 nearby in Whimple who is almost certainly another son of theirs, since he is the only other Dunn in Whimple. He might be the most likely candidate for father of Robert c1852.


I might have got my Dunns muddled there, but I hope not! You would need the birth certificate of Robert George's father Robert, to follow the trail back accurately. His birth seems to be registered March quarter 1853 in St Thomas reg dist, which covered Whimple.

So -- it looks like you do descend from a William Dunn born c1791 per the 1841 census -- but a different one from the William Dunn in the opening post. Very likely related, though?

[bobpen]

Many thanks for all that information. I had hoped that my earlier reply might have helped jiminwales but no doubt yours will be much more relevant to his original request.

My memory may well be at fault regarding 'Robert George'; you are right he is just 'George' on the Census return so 'George Robert' may be his full name. It is Cottleigh on the return though (two t's) but Cotleigh Cottage, Ottery makes more sense. For what it is worth, my aunt (middle sister) gave me a faded photograph of her father's mother 'at Mappowders' and she recalled that he visited her there from time to time. My niece has traced a Mappowders, house or cottage, near Clyst Hydon which fits the general area but the photo gives no indication of locality.

(I paid my dues to see the record online when the details were released - a year early as I recall - so I suppose it is OK for me to quote them here?)

bp

[JaneyCanuck]

I think he was just called "George" because his father was already Robert. That was very common. My greatx2 grandmother was Sarah Emma but she was called "Emma" (it seems, from a census), because her mother was Sarah. Your guy's birth is registered as Robert George.

I checked that image and I'm positive there was one "t"!

For connecting up with the William 1791 in the opening post, you would probably have to go back at least two generations, i.e. to the grandfather of the two Williams, since two Williams wouldn't be brothers, no matter how much they recycled the names.

[bobpen]

Thank you again. I have no other record except what (I think) mother told me. When I am that way I'll check his gravestone. There was no stone until my aunt wished to be buried with him and my cousins provided the stone with both names, father and daughter. I'll see what name(s) they gave him.

For what it is worth I'll try to append his signature on the survey form, I hope there's no harm in that.

bp

[JaneyCanuck]

Ooops -- sorry about that! Yes, it's the transcription that says "Cotleigh". That must have been taken from the book the info was compiled in, where the census people wrote the actual address, i.e. Cotleigh Cottage.

It's great to see our ancestors' own writing in the 1911 census; now if only they'd minded their spelling.

[bobpen]

Regarding Janey's note placing George/Robert's family in Whimple it occurred to me to check the map

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=whimple+devon&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1280&bih=629&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&ei=SVgiUKW9IcH80QX9vYGwCw&ved=0CEYQ_AUoAg

and lo and behold, there, just a bit east of Whimple, is 'Cotleigh Wood' - a good enough reason for naming his census address as Cotleigh (Cottage)? I wonder.

And just a bit further on we have Escot Park, home, still, of the Kennaway family and where my grandmother Jane Dunn had some connection. Quite likely she was 'in service' there. I must check the details but she received a presentation on behalf of either the house or a girls' friendly society - maybe both - of a framed picture which passed to my aunt who kept it hanging over her bed, and then from her children to my sister. This is all tying in nicely and adding a great deal of human interest.

I'm only sorry that we continue to stray from JiminWales's original request. Perhaps there is a link in there somewhere that may be helpful to him.

bp (edit: missing 'r' in Regarding)