graves in England

[dutch missmarple]

Hi,

Just wondering....
When someone is buried in England, is the grave then always there? Here in Holland when someone is buried the grave is "rented"for 10 or 20 years. After that time the "lease"can be renewed. If this is not the case the grave wil be removed (emptied and cleaned).
If this is not the case in England it might be possible to find some graves of my ancestors and possible get a picture of the graves.

Can anyone tell me?

Thanks.

Dutch MissMarple

[panda40]

It is not the same over here. Usually you buy a plot and are buried in it. Families can buy several plots and arrange to be buried in the same grave. Some places re use the grave after a certain time. (not sure of the correct info but someone will add to more I'm sure).

The main thing is not every grave had a head stone. If you were poor then you were buried with no marker as your family could not afford it. The record of where you are buried is kept and you may well have to pay to view the church records.
The other thing is due to weather conditions a lot of the headstones are unreadable now. I spent Monday looking for some of mine but over half the headstones were in very poor condition.
Try emailing the local council of the area you are looking at and they can help you locate the correct cemetery and grave and then someone may be able to have a look for you.
Regards Panda

[BumbleB]

For a start you could always try www.gravestonephotos.com to see if they have already photographed the headstone.   I managed to get a couple of mine from that site.  It is free, but donations are welcomed.  If you know, also, vaguely where they died and possibly buried, then post a request for that particular area, the members on Rootschat are very obliging.  Good luck.

BumbleB

[dutch missmarple]

Hi,

Thanks Panda and BumbleB. Will look into those possibilities.

DMM

[mshrmh]

Panda has covered the main points. Most people were buried in churchyards upto the mid 1850s when many in urban areas became full and local authorities (councils) and some private companies opened their own cemeteries. Around 1890 cremation became legal and has gradually become more popular such that now the majority of people are cremated.

In the 1970s there was a trend to tidying full churchyards by removing headstones and grassing over - the stones were often put against the perimeter wall or used as paths. The move now seems to be to create "wild" areas - with planting etc.

Also some churches with burial grounds have closed and the site has been redeveloped - in these cases I think stones have often been lost or destroyed - remains have been re-interred elsewhere.

We don't have any central register of burials or cremations - in theory each cemetery kept its own records - some are transcribed on various sites, but I suspect the majority are not.

[Enumerated]

It is true that many churchyards were levelled and grassed over, but many were not.  You can still find traditional churchyards full of gravestones, many of which are still readable although up to 200 years old or even older.

I photograph and transcribe gravestones for FindAGrave (free site).  If you would like to see a traditional English churchyard, search FindaGrave for Eleanor Franks died 1827 in England.  She is buried in St Leonard Churchyard, Streatham, which is a timeless oasis in a very built up area in South London.  Other graves in this churchyard which will show you what it is like are Gillham, Madden and Reader.  Susanna Gillham was buried in 1800 and still has a clearly readable headstone.

If the churchyard has been cleared, hopefully the gravestones will have been arranged so that they can still be read.  It is really potluck whether or not a gravestone can be found.  If you don't know where they are buried it can take a lot of searching to find out.  There is a National Burial Index being compiled on CD-rom which is now on its 3rd Edition, so you could ask for a look-up with fingers crossed that they are on it (sorry, I don't have it).

If you think your ancestors may be buried in South London, post the names and I will add them to my list of people to look out for when I am graving

[Cancan]

Hi,

I have recently been looking into the details of Cemeteries. At first when you purchased your plot the lease for was 99yrs, but now it is only for 50yrs.  In a municipal Cemetery when the lease has expired you no longer own the plot but you do own the Gravestone, or descendants do.  What I haven't found out yet is can descendants of this Gravestone be still liable for it's up keep. ( I don't think many will be coming forward for that bill, though Councils couldn't afford to find every descendant)

I am in Manchester UK and have recently put a proposal to the Manchester Council

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,481713.0.html

This we believe is the first time that, if the proposal is granted, it will be done in the UK in a Council Cemetery.

Whilst Church Cemeteries have been transcribed, Council owned Cem's don't seem to have been done.
What I have found out in the past few days it that it could be looking like you need permission of the owner of the Gravestone to take a photograph of it.  If it displayed on the net or in a book you could be liable for legal action.  This though is not 100% certain, as it is currently being checked out with Legal persons. (this is only I think if it is on Council property)

Manchester Council currently own 6 Cemeteries and there is a plan to re-erect gravestones that have been laid flat for safety reasons or vandalised. If they are broken they will be laid on the ground face up, so inscription can be seen.  Two Manchester Cemeteries have been given  the Green Flag ward for the Condition of them due to improvements.  Manchester have also started forming groups called 'Friends of ??' (name of Cemetery) These Volunteers are helping with the upkeep and planting etc., at their Cemetery.

If you are looking for someone specific I would suggest posting on the County board you believe to have lived in, as locals can tell you whether the Churchyard or Cem is still there.

I will be keeping the posting on the Lancashire board  about our proposal updated, with any news.

We've all got our fingers crossed and anything else we can cross!!

Cancan


(I do have the National Burials Index 3rd Edition, but if your looking for say Lancashire, presently I would say save your money as it doesn't have a lot transcribed for it, and you could be wasting your money.  The County with the most transcribed seems to be West Riding Yorkshire, the least seems to be Devon and Mongomeryshire roughly 4000 each)

[louisa maud]

Normally in a cemetery one buys the plot and has the deeds which can be kept for reference adding any others who may later be buried in the same grave
Churchyards,  one does not buy the plot but if the church wanted to they could re-use a grave that has been used years and years ago but quite often they are closed, so this plot is never owned by any other person than the church as I understand it
Unfortunately with churchyards it is left to a very few who are willing to tend the ground long after  any family members have decided not to visit their loved ones, that is one reason why I prefer cremation, nothing is left in most cases for someone else to look after, I have full admiration for these caring people

Louisa Maud.

[Guy Etchells]

The The Local Authorities’ Cemeteries Order 1977 states-

"(2) Subject to paragraph (3), a right under paragraph (1), other than a right described in (a)(ii), shall
subsist for the period specified in the grant, being a period beginning with the date of the grant and not
exceeding 100 years."

Many Local Authorities restrict this to less than 75 years some as little as 25 years.

In the past churchyard private burial plots were purchased in perpetuity (i.e. for ever), however legislation (I think in 1974) reduced this to 75 years not retrospectively.

Cheers
Guy