Brickwall

[mypurdy50]

HELP.....I am unable to put a date or ABT date for my grt grt grt grand father Joseph Gilliver.I have his marriage certificate 4.11.1817 to Ann Dolman Repton Derbyshire..no clues,other than for in the presense of Harriet and William Dolman, Ann,s brother and sister.No age given for Joseph or Ann..I have them both in Castle Gresley Derbyshire on 1841 51 61 census,but with conflicting ages.Ann was b Repton and the census,s state Joseph b Castle Gresley.Their first born Elizabth ,,was b1818 Repton.my grt grt grand mother.
On marriage certificate residense
 for Joseph is, of Seale.
 I hope you can help to enable me to go further back with my family tree.
  regards Carol 

[goldie61]

Hi mypurdy
What ages do you have for Joseph from the cenuses - even if they are conflicting they will give some clues. Does he say he is born at the same place on each census or are those conflicting places too?
I can't see him straight away, but on the IGI  an Ann Dolman is christened 15 June 1794 at Repton, father Samuel and mother Ann, with a corresponding brother William on the same date in 1794 (not necessarily twins - sometimes they saved up and did 'two for the price of one!") and a Harriet in 1796. A Samuel Dolman and Ann are married 1791 in Mickleover, which according to Google maps, seems to be about 5 miles to Repton, so a good possibility. (You may already have all this of course!)

Do you know if Joseph and Ann had any other children besides your gggrandmother Elizabeth? (just found Harriott ch Church Gresley 1820, and Ann ch 1823 Church Gresley on IGI pilot)) -   SOmetimes you can track people from what names they carry on in the family (eg they obviously called one of the daughters Harriott after Ann's sister).
Were there any boys born to Joseph and Ann?

Hope this helps
Happy hunting

Added: On FreeREG there is a marriage of Joseph Gilliver to Hannah Smith 25th Nov 1793 at Church Gresley. Then on pilot search there is a whole raft of children born to them all christened Church Gresley - Elizabeth 1794, Daniel 1795, William 1799, Mary 1801, Sarah 1803, Thomas 1813. No Joseph unfortunately! Though it seems strange he didn't name a son after himself. This may be them, and your Joseph is missing for some reason. Maybe they were away from home, maybe they couldn't afford it that year. Lots of gaps between those children for another son to be born, and the timing is about right. Interesting.

[mypurdy50]

Hi again,iv,e taken note of your reply.i found a Hannah Smith and a son born to her in 1792 named Joseph.IT looks like born out of wedlock?but went on to marry  Joseph Gilliver 1793.if this is the case could Joseph jnr have married in the name (Gilliver).Or would he have to use the name babtised with? (Smith) If there was was a name change how would i find out?

 iv,e got a nice feeling about this.
   regards Carol
   

[goldie61]

I would say you're probably right about Joseph being illegitimate. Only his mother Hannah is mentioned on pilot search, which is pretty unusual - it might give you some more information if you were to view the actual register.
As to what name he used, I'd guess it could be either - no birth certificates then remember, so you could pretty much use whatever name you liked! - especially if you were somewhere other than where people knew you.

[Gardener]

Hi

Did you notice that in 1841 (assuming I have the right family) Joseph and Ann's neighbours were Daniel Gilliver aged 48, and family?

Daniel is 58 in 1851, born Castle Greasley.

Perhaps that is Joseph's brother? (or half-brother at least)