All Saints, Newcastle, William hay

[Carol20]

Hi Dave

The Militia list is second on my list of documents to see at the archives, I am very interested in the records kept by the Harbottle Presbyterian Church at the time. It was not just like a parish record but my research suggests it has family names, social conditions, occupations etc included for those families not adhering to the Church of England faith. I will be looking for Lunn references but also Robson as John Lunn married a Mary Robson who's father was a William Robson, I have the evidence for this from documents from the Archive. Newcastle General Cemetery is now called Jesmond Old Cemetery and appears convenient for the hotel I will be staying in on my visit.

Will let you now if I find anything or not
Carol

[Carol20]

Hi Dave
Just to let you know what I found out at the Northumberland Archives, disappointingly nothing in the documents I had time to go through but at least that means there is no more references in these available sources to research.  The 1762 militia list for Harbottle had no mention of a Lunn the whole list was on a PDF file accessible on one of their computers so was quick and easy to go through. I checked for the whole of West Coquetdale and found no reference to a Lunn. There was a reference to a William Robson of Allonton later Alwinton, merchant who is possible John Lunn's wife, Mary Robson's father. When I inquired if there was anything later it appears there are two more sources, not digitized a 1797 - 1823 muster roll and a 1798 Coquetdale volunteers, both are lengthy reads so I was unable to look at them this visit. The document I hoped to read through was very difficult and the pages I had time to look at had no references to either the Lunns or Robsons, however I only managed earlier records so it is another document to go back to, the writing was difficult and many pages had been written on in one direction then turned sideways and written on again to save paper!
if you are interested in John Lunn's wife Mary Robson I checked her and her siblings birth registration for any clues and only got that they had lived at Alwinton before Harbottle and lived at a place called Whitton in the area but William Robson was originally from Elsdon Parish - no reference to the name of a mother.

With reference to John Lunn he was buried in 1854 in Jesmond Old Cemetery, Ward 17 Section 62 Grave 45, Newcastle upon Tyne, the cemetery is very large and closed in the evening so I cold not go wandering to find the grave.

I did have better luck with another brick wall ancestor not on your line, so my visit was not all disappointing. I do not live in the northeast so it might be a while before I have chance to do anymore research but it was a lovely place to visit and the nearby coast meant I finished my day with a paddle in the sea.
bye for now
Carol

[dlunn1]

Thanks for checking Carol - shame it didn't turn anything up.

I'm interested to hear about William Robson. The Robson name comes up a lot in the next generation or two and it's particularly interesting that at all three marriages in St Andrew's in 1815/16 of James, Frederick and Mary Lunn, the register shows 'in the presence of' William Robson. Perhaps when they all went down to Newcastle, her father went as well?

Can you tell me what record from the archives you found to show that Mary's surname is Robson and her father is named William?

Dave.

[Carol20]

Hi Dave
The evidence I have for Mary Lunn nee Robson is as follows, (apart from a succession of middle names in the next two generations being Robson) I did a search of all Lunn / Harbottle related documents on the Northumberland Archives online. It had three relating to a property in Harbottle owned by the late James Lunn which I sent for copies. One is a very detailed description of the property and where it was in Harbottle, it seems to be a document dealing with the winding up of James Lunns affairs in 1850 after his death in 1949.The second was a description of the cottage with a sketch of the floor plan its ash privy and coal house. The third was the bonus, again a description of the house of the late former tenant James Lunn and its value £10.00, the cottage by 1850 was in a poor condition, towards the end of the  document it relates previous occupants, "Robert Davison deceased, afterwards enjoyed by Marjory his widow, and now or late occupied by Mary Lunn, sister of the said Marjory to hold from AD 1827 at will. A Marjory Robson married Robert |Davison in Alwinton in 1779, hence Mary being Marjory's sister must also be Robson. Marjory Davison died in 1826 so her sister moved into her cottage but looks like Mary Lunn son James was paying the rent. Using the two sisters dates of birth there was a candidate family in the next village of Alwinton, father William Robson with a son also called William, who I suspect is the family witness to the three marriages as William senior died in 1808 and two other sons James and Edward,not the most direct evidence but going that far back it might be all there is available.

If you want Mary Lunn's signature or mark ' X' you can find a marriage licence for her daughter Mary Lunn to Adam Sheills on line in the FamilySearch site.

I need to correct my last post I said that William Robson was from Whotton, this is incorrect it is Whitlees in the Elsdon Parish.

As my interest is in the maternal line, my next step is to find a name for William Robsons wife, Mary Lunn's mother and the evidence to prove it, there was a Margaret Robson wife of a William Robson who died in Harbottle, buried in Alwinton in 1798 but I need more evidence..but that's the fun bit!

if i can be of any help just ask. Bye for now

Carol

[bhlb]

Your correspondence has inspired me to resuscitate my dormant work on the Lunn family.  I have been trying for many years to extend the Lunn family back from John (1764 - 1803).  There are plenty of Lunn records the other side of the border but John Locher and I could never find a connection.

The questions that have concerned me are: why did the family all move to Newcastle after John's death (mentioned in an earlier post)?  Was there some family link in Newcastle?  And: the occupation of tailor seems an unlikely one for a place like Harbottle.  Were there really enough people around 1800 with the spare cash to employ a tailor in the area?  Hearing that James Lunn (not the oldest brother) owned property in Harbottle just adds to my confusion about the family finances.

Another issue that David raised has concerned me for many years.  That is the marriage of John Lunn and Mary Robson.  I have the marriage as taking place in Harbottle on April 20th 1787 (note that their son John was born on April 11th!). I got this information from my father's genealogy records but without any reference.  I have unsuccessfully looked through his notebooks to see if I could work out where he obtained the information.

Mike Bertram

PS my Lunn connection is that my grandmother was Ada Bertram (nee Lunn).

[Carol20]

Hi Mike
Harbottle and the next village Alwinton were much busier places around 1800, with the passing cattle trade. I am attaching a  photo I took when I visited these two villages a couple of years ago which will explain the situation is 1800. The Lunn brothers seem to have made their money first with the public house trade, the Phoenix in Spicer Lane then as Shipping agents, I have access to the digitized Newcastle Newspapers where there are numerous mention of the Lunn family, their lives and work in Newcastle but why Newcastle and was anybody helping them I have not found out. As to the marriage of John Lunn and Mary Robson, it is a shame your father's records do not have a source, its likely they went over the boarder and when I once tried to cross reference possible parishes and where there records might be I realized there are a lot of border records that have not been indexed or digitized but are waiting for someone to wade through in Edinburgh record office.

Just found something of interest from my newspaper downloads, from the Newcastle Courant 1890, A piece on the Old Coquetdale Volunteers concerning the threat of french invasion:

'Many of the country squires had their servants told of each to certain posts in event of an invasion. For instance, Squire Clennell of Harbottle had men set apart to drive the wives and bairns of his  dependents to the hills in carts; others to drive the cattle; whilst others were armed in a promiscus manner with guns, pistols and swords, to act as escort. Once a week these men were paraded on the lawn in front of Harbottle castle when the squire called over their names and each man had to detail his duty. The name of one man has been handed down to us, which shows how the drill was conducted. When the Squire called out "John Lunn", the answer was "Sword and Gunn" ' - it is a long piece in the paper but no date is given for this instance but some research on Squire Clennell might give a date.

Bye for now Carol

[bhlb]

Thanks, Carol.  I certainly misunderstood how busy Harbottle was in the past.  I have published the information I have collected on the Lunns on my web site at www.the2nomads.org.  We leave in a couple of days on a holiday.  When I return home I will update the family tree with the information that you and David have provided.  Could you provide me with your surname?  My email is the2nomads@centurylink.net.

Regards, Mike

[bhlb]

I have updated my family tree database with information that Carol and Dave Lunn have provided.  The Lunn family tree is published on my web site the2nomads.org. - Mike

[rockpebblar]

Researching the Lunns on my wife side, found this to be of interest (but a few errors
http://the2nomads.org/Genealogy/Lunns.html