Tracing a German in London - Heinrich Philip Schmidt?

[richarde1979]

Hello

I have an Elizabeth Catherine Smith, aged 19, Married to a Thomas Houghton 1873 Bethnal Green. She gives her father as Henry Smith, Dock Labourer. On the census she gives birth place as St George in The East.

There is a Henry Smith with a daughter right age in 1861:

1861:10 New Street, Mile End Old Town, St Phillips, Stepney, Middlesex:

Henry Smith, head, mar, Labourer, 40, Germany
Sarah Smith, wife, mar, 36, Stepney
Henry Smith, son, 12, Bethnal Green
Sarah Smith, dau, 9, Whitechapel
Elizabeth Smith, dau, 7, Stepney
Jane Smith, dau, 5, Whitechapel
Emily Smith, dau, 3, Stepney
Edward Smith, son, 2 months, Stepney

There is strong family lore that Elizabeth Catherine Smiths and Thomas Houghtons daughter told people her family were originally 'German', but 'none of them bad ones' and blonde hair was passed down through her.

This is possibly them in 1851 though he does not give Germany in that instance, but place Whitechapel is where they should be according to the nearest childs, Sarah's birth in 1851/2, and Henry the sons age and birthplace match.

1851: 4 Fieldgate Street, Whitechapel, Middlesex

Henry Smith, Head, Mar, 33, Labourer, Stepney
Sarah Smith, Wife, Mar, 23, Stepney
George Smith, Son, 4, Spitalfields
Henry Smith, Son, 2, Bethnal Green


I think he may have died after 1861 and this could be the widow and sons in 1871:

1871: St George in The East, Middlesex:

Sarah Smith, Widow, 43, Charwoman, Stepney
Edward Smith, Son, 9, St George in The East
William Smith, Son, 7,  St George in The East
Charles Smith, Son, 5,  St George in The East


Interestingly there is a baptism for Elizabeth Catherine Smith, to a Henry 'Phillip' Smith and Sarah at right time 1853, but in Bethnal Green, not Stepney, and the fathers occ is given as Musician. Also what makes me doubt it is I cannot find any other baptisms for this couple, seems weird they would baptise just one daughter. I'm thinking perhaps he was from one of the Southern German states, e.g Bavaria and possibly a Catholic man.

If anyone can help me on where to go now, perhaps find them on other census, or advice how to trace any immigration records for Henry 'Philip' Smith/Heinrich Philip Schmidt?

Regards

Richard

[Jeuel]

Have you got Henry and Sarah's marriage cert?

[Valda]

Hi

A possible

Marriages Sep 1846 
Bellew  Sarah     Whitechapel  2 565   
Smiht  Henry     Whitechapel  2 565

7th Sep 1846 St Mary, Whitechapel
Henry Smiht Full Bachelor Musician Montague Street John Smiht Tailor
Sarah Bellew Full Spinster Montague Street Patrick Bellew Clerk
Sarah made her mark
Witnesses Catherine Bellew her mark and Emanuel Abtschul


You would need a birth certificate to confirm Sarah's maiden name.


Regards

Valda

[richarde1979]

Thanks Valda

It does look like that is the same couple, on the baptism 1853 for an Elizabeth Catherine Smith, St Matthias Bethnal Green, which gives the father as Henry Smith, Musician. The cert for that child no doubt would show Sarah maiden name as Bellew.

However, the problem I was having is Elizabeth Catherine Smith on her marriage gives her father not as a Musician but as as a Dock Labourer, and on both the census I have found (above) 1851 & 1861 he is just that, a Labourer.

I was tending to think the baptism wasn't her, and to a different couple, especially as my couple had lots of other children none of whom appear to be baptised, not at least in regular C of E Churches covered on Ancestry. Why would they baptise just one daughter? Doesn't seem to make sense. As a German maybe likely he was not C of E, possibly Lutheran or Catholic.

However I'm beginning to sway the other way in light of your findings, I think the baptism is hers now, as that marriage appears to shows German links too, which would match him up with the Labourer on the census. I would think a trade as a musician is difficult to earn a regular living from, even today, and I suppose  a day to day crust being earned from dock work and casual labour is not wildly improbable.

Is there anyway of tracking immigration from Germany to London in the 19th century? I have no experience of this. All mine so far has been concerned with Huguenots earlier than this date...don't know where to start with the Germans.

[Valda]

Hi

see

http://www.progenealogists.com/germansengland.htm

and

http://www.agfhs.org.uk/

as a starting point


Regards

Valda

[JustinL]

Elizabeth Catherine's birth cert might be a better starting point. This looks pretty likely Q2 1853 Stepney (vol. 1c, p. 479)

There was a thriving German community in east London that had started in the 18th century as German immigrants followed the Hannoverian King  - so to speak.

St. George's Lutheran Church in Goodman's Fields / Allie Street (Whitechapel) was a focal point of the community. My German ancestors had their children baptised there. Later generations married and had their children baptised in various C of E churches in Stepney.

All the best,

Justin

[Valda]

Hi

already stated

You would need a birth certificate to confirm Sarah's maiden name.

Regards

Valda

[richarde1979]

Thanks for advice Justin and Valda, much appreciated.

I'm fairly certain that the certificate will match up with the baptism given the date, and the relative rarity of Elizabeth 'Catherine's' in the area. Since the baptism gives Henry as a Musician, fair assumption the 1846 marriage  which also gives occupation as musician, does relate to that childs parents, and the maiden name for the mother to that baptism will be Bellew.

The certificate then even if it confirmed the mother maiden name as Bellew, would be unlikely to move me any further in my search, i.e still wouldn't be able to prove that this Elizabeth Catherine is the same girl that married Thomas Houghton 19 years later, and gave her fathers occupation not as a musician but  as a dock labourer. That's the real difficulty, proving it's one and the same person. I tend to think it is, especially as there is also the suggestion of Irish ancestry on this line, and the Bellews do seem to be from Ireland, but 100% proving it..

Incidently this is not my own family, just a research project so sticking to what I can find online for time being.