Irregularly married in Linlithgow

[greenvalley]

Hi Falkyrn

Thank you for that - I hadn't realised that the minister had a duty to register the marriages. This one must have been very conscientious and did his duty.

That also explains why I didn't see irregular marriages before, despite having stacks of Old Parish Records. I am so pleased that I now at least can understand why that may have been.

Greenvalley

[greenvalley]

The Elders of Raploch farm are my family here in Scotland, I live just about 15 mins from where they all were. Thomas Elder born 1779 is my 4th great grandfather. His son  Peter born 1810 married Jean Peat their son Thomas Elder married Annie Bell and their Daughter Margaret Elder married John McFarlane this then brings me to my grandfather John Mcfarlane born 1904 married Elizabeth Crowe Packness these are my grandparents. Maybe we could help each other with our family tree's.

Hi Preysangel,

So nice to meet a relative. Thomas Elder is the 3x great grandfather of my husband (I'm the genealogist in the family). We too live in Scotland so it would be nice perhaps to meet and compare notes.

I noticed that you are new to Rootschat, so I am happy to say hello and assure you that this is a site where you can find loads of help  from all members.

If you make two or three more posts you can send a personal message and we can exchange email addresses. I wouldn't do it publicly as spammers may get hold of it.

Hope to hear from you soon

Greenvalley

[RonElder]

It's a while since the last post in this thread but I thought I would contribute my penny's worth.

I am descended from the David Elder who died at Raploch Farm. He is my Gt-Gt-Grandfather. His sone George Robertson Elder emigrated to New Zealand in the late 1850s. The Janet (Jessie) Robertson was David Elder's own wife, not his mother. She was the daughter of a Congregationalist minister George Robertson in the Orkneys - note my Gt-Gt-Grandfather's middle name.  However, David Elder's father was indeed another David Elder. He married Hannah Jamieson in Linlithgow West Lothian in 1788.

We have always been intrigued to know the connection that placed our David Elder in the farmhouse at Raploch where he died. We assume that they were family of some kind but we have not found the link. We believe that a link has been established for Thomas Elder not too far from Linlithgow which may prove fruitful. We would be grateful for any further information.

About the 'Irregular Marriage' issue - our understanding is that a marriage might be classified 'irregular' for something as seemingly trivial as the failure to read the banns the prescribed number of times. There would of course have been a charge for reading the banns and families may have economised by having them read just the once  to announce the impending marriage thus rendering the marriage 'irregular'.

[portybelle]

An irregular marriage would sometimes be confirmed by the Kirk Session later and therefore be in the the OPRs. I came across one just this week where the couple had been irregularly married in January in Edinburgh, appeared before the session in Inveresk in the March 'were rebuked' and had their marriage confirmed. May have been that the minister insisted they were confirmed before baptising a baby in my case but pure specualtion.

[angusg]

Something else to bear in mind. The Minister in any Chirch of scotland Parish
was assisted by Lay Elders, who kept tabs on everyone in their
area of the parish. At least twice a year the Elder would comer around and ensure
that you were paid up and aware that your attendance at communion was expected.

Regards
Angus

[greenvalley]

Hi Angus,

Sounds a terrible thought, laymen coming to your house to snoop and I assume to report you if you did anything wrong - well in their eyes at least.

that reminds me of stories in the Netherlands in the 1950s where the catholic priest came to visit asking why there weren't any more children? Couples were expected to "multiply" (without enjoying it) and not use any contraceptive - so if you had only 2 children that was seen as suspect.

So glad this doesn't happen anymore

Greenvalley

[Forfarian]

Legally at that time marriages could only be conducted by a Minister of the Established Church of Scotland.

Sorry, but that is not the case.

You could contract a perfectly legal marriage in Scotland without involving the Church of Scotland at all. What made a marriage legal was that you declared in front of witnesses that you were married. Naturally the C of S took a very dim view of this, and it was they who designated such marriages as 'irregular', in other words, any marriage contracted without going through the due process of having banns called and then the ceremony conducted by the parish minister.

See http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/ for a much fuller and more polished account.

It is also true that the government laid on the C of S the duty of recording all marriages, but this did not always happen, and when it did the records sometimes got lost.