Records for Northern Ireland

[Jet2823]

Hi I wanted to pick up on this post as my wife’s great grandfather Robert William was a brother to Margaret Andrews and Mary Anne Andrews mentioned in this thread.

Would love to find out any more details of the Andrews family.

Mary Anne Andrews married John Henry Black and were sister-in law and brother to my Grandfather. John Henry, Mary Anne (or Annie) & family lived in Scotland and I am still in touch with their grandchildren.

Kiltaglassan, thanks for sharing further links related to the Andrews family.

[Kiltaglassan]

Kiltaglassan, thanks for sharing further links related to the Andrews family.

You're very welcome, Jet2823 

We're always very keen to help, if you have difficulties 

[Mabus]

Right!  The emails popping up tempted me to come and have a look!

In order (I think).

Added- have a baptism for a John Henry Black 2 Oct.1878 son of John Black and Mary Henry
I think this must be a different John Henry Black, born with the same name, around the same time, but with different parents.  I definitely have his parents as being Hugh Lyle Black and Mary Jane Wilson.

...

I have a Hugh Black who married Mary Jane Wilson on 25 Oct 1876 in Maghera Presbyterian Church.

High circumstantially Thomas Black, father of Hugh Lyle Black, mother may be a Sarah Lyle. Extensive research I and others have done on the Lyle family of Kilcronaghan (which includes Cloghfin and Tobermore) gives us a Sarah Lyle who had married someone with the surname Black. She would have been born around the turn of the century (1800) meaning generationally she would be rightly placed to be Hugh's grandmother. The Black's were also a Kilcronaghan family.

As we know many middle names come from the maiden name of the father's mother, though also from the mother's side. So as i said it is highly circumstantial however the fit is there.

That was not the only Lyle marriage to a Black however, with a William Lyle of Tobermore marrying a Jane Black. He was a first-cousin of Sarah Lyle.

If the connection is correct, and thats assuming, then Thomas Black's pedigree could go back further like this:

Thomas Black
- Sarah Lyle & ?? Black
--Hugh Lyle (c1759-1853) & Nancy McLean/Ann McNeill [was married twice]
---John Lyle & Mary Kenning, married 1740
----Robert Lyle, b. 1693 & Mary

The tombstone of the last four individuals lies in the old Kilcronaghan parish graveyard.

Edit: Just realised a possible reinforcing link is in Hugh Lyle Black's forename. Sarah Lyle's father as noted above was Hugh. Makes sense.

[Mabus]

Turns out Hugh Lyle Black's [well a Hugh Black of Cloughfin anyways] mother may actually be Sarah, meaning Sarah Lyle is most likely his mother and not grandmother as I suggested.

According to GRONI, a Sarah Black, aged 78 died on 6 September 1874 at Cloughfin, her death was witnessed by a Hugh Black of Cloughfin. Thomas Black died aged 86 on 7 November 1879 at Cloughfin, witnessed by Hugh Black of Cloughfin.

As the Sarah Lyle I have was born around 1800 as her siblings were, her estimated year of birth, going by her death record (knowing full well sometimes they forget their real age), would have been 1796.

This also helps clarify why Hugh was called Hugh Lyle Black, for instead of just his middle name being his mother's maiden name, his forename and middle names both came from Sarah's fathers name.

As such I would amend the above short pedigree too:

Hugh Lyle Black
- Sarah Lyle & Thomas Black
--Hugh Lyle (c1759-1853) & Nancy McLean/Ann McNeill [was married twice]
---John Lyle & Mary Kenning, married 1740
----Robert Lyle, b. 1693 & Mary

Griffith's Valuation also only contains two Thomas Black's in Kilcronaghan, one in Mormeal and the other in Cloughfin. Meaning there can be no doubt this is the Thomas Black father of Hugh. Most likely they are both the same Thomas who simply had lands in both townlands. Looking at the PRONI valuations:

In 1881, Hugh Black officially took on Thomas Black's lease in Cloughfin.
In 1884, Samuel Black took over the Cloughfin lease from Hugh Black.
Between 1864-1883, an Alexander Black took on Thomas Black's lease in Mormeal. No year is pencilled in in the margin however. Though other entries I see for other people in the same dark blue ink are in the early 1880s.

Would safely say both Thomas' from Griffith's ar e the same and Alexander, Samuel and Hugh may all be brothers. Around 1884 must have been when Hugh moved from the area to Ballintemple.

[Edit:] Further confirmation of Thomas Black and Sarah being husband and wife from their headstone at Tobermore Presbyterian Church:

Erected by
Thomas Black
To the memory of his wife
Sarah Black,
Who departed this life 6th Sep.
1874 Aged 78 years.
Stone broken at this point

[Jet2823]

Mabus, thank you for this detailed research on the Lyle family! I have never managed to go back further than Thomas and Sarah Lyle and although aware of the gravestone in Tobermore Presbyterian, was not aware of the gravestone at Kilcronaghan. Thanks again!

[Mabus]

Mabus, thank you for this detailed research on the Lyle family! I have never managed to go back further than Thomas and Sarah Lyle and although aware of the gravestone in Tobermore Presbyterian, was not aware of the gravestone at Kilcronaghan. Thanks again!

No problems! As a descendant of the Lyle's with the my own middle name being Lyle, this thread has also been beneficial for me as well for until I saw it yerterday I would never have been able to figure out who the Black was that Sarah Lyle married.

Also in further confirmation, if any was even needed, that the Hugh mentioned as being present at the deaths of both Thomas and Sarah was their son, PRONI has Thomas' will abstract which states: "Letters of Administration of the personal estate of Thomas Black late of Cloughfin County Londonderry Farmer deceased who died 7 November 1879 at same place were granted at Londonderry to Hugh Black of Cloughfin Farmer the Son of said deceased." Just a pity the record itself doesn't exist anymore as it would likely have revealed other children and relations.