Freeman family

[renibacterium]

I have hit the brick wall with this one. I am researching my wife's family tree.
She has great grand parents who are Richard Freeman (b c1848 Ireland) and Helen Jane Hoyte (b 1850 Islington, London, England) who were married in1873 in Islington. Richard can be seen living with his sister Annie Freeman ( b1845 Ireland) in Shoreditch, London, Eng. in the 1871 census and his job is recorded as a Warehouseman. On his marriage certificate Richard's father is given as Richard Freeman, profession artist. Richard and Helen have children born in London: Frank (b1875), James William (b1876),  William (b1878) and perhaps Richard (b1874); there maybe other siblings. Sometime after 1878 Richard & Helen take their family to Ireland (probably the northern part, possibly Antrim). A few year's latter Helen dies. She is burried, we believe somewhere in Antrim and the cost of the burrial was assisted by an Archer family. Somewhere in the1880's Richard takes the children back to London, Eng and abandons them on a railway station platform. The children are subsequently brought up by aunties. William though is adopted by the Archer family in Antrim and he can be seen in The Irish 1911 census with his wife and family. He added Archer to his name -  William Freeman-Archer.

I would like to find out more about Richard Freeman, sr, the artist, who his wife was and family ancestor's. Also his son Richard is rumoured to have gone to Russia and may have dealt in furs.

Any help / connections appreciated

Thanks

reni

[obbie]

hi reni

on family search
john freeman 23-12-1880 belfast da richard ma helen jane
john,s birth reg . belfast antrim 1880 v1-1 p 329

richard freeman baptism 21 dec 1873 da and ma correct , born 17 nov 1873
st philip dalston hackney middlesex .
address grange hd east da,s occ warehouseman

frank freeman              bapt 9th feb 1879 born 5th march 1879
james william freeman bapt 9th feb 1879 born 11 sept 1876   
one under the other in reg.  (thought they were twins just baptised same day)
parents correct but mother ellen jane not helen jane , his occ warehouseman .
address is hard to work out , looks like 4 sandingham terrace west (something) ?
parish st ann tottenham borough haringey county middlesex .

richard and frank and james williams baptism records (photo of) and the parents marriage record (photo) is there also . ive sent you a pm of site .

couldnt find your william . goodluck

[renibacterium]

Thank you very much Obbie 

I don't  subscribe to the web site you sent me info on, is the information you have given me from there freely accessible?

Also i am a bit confused by some of the dates you give:-

eg.  Frank Freeman is baptised before he is  born .......     " frank freeman              bapt 9th feb 1879 born 5th march 1879"

We believe Frank was born in 1875.

William Freeman was born Edmonton, London Q to Mar 1878.


Thank you for finding John Freeman's birth, we knew that there were probably 5 boys born to Richard and Helen Freeman but we did not know the fifth boy's first name or where he was born. So you have really helped us here.


Have you found a death/ burrial record for Helen Jane Freeman (nee Hoyte) in Antrim sometime shortly from 1880 ?  I have had no luck yet.

Once again thank you

reni

[obbie]

hi will look again at franks writeing is hard to understand .

a baby ellen jane freeman ballymoney deaths jan-mar 1882 age 0 volume 1 page 125 .
possible child ?

no sign of mam death either ellen hellen or jane of correct age .

have sent PM to you .

obbie

[obbie]

looked at franks again baptism date is correct to my best guess birth date looks correct also , so possible mistake by priest writing in birth date .

looked for william no image just district year volume and page no,s which you have .

[obbie]

just had quick look at richard and sis annie on 1871 census st leonard shoreditch london .

possible father .

richard freeman born 1801 age 70 born ireland wife mary age 48  , hackney london his occupation a painter , on 1871 census .

painter as in artist or decorator ?
i dont know london how close is hackney and shoreditch ?
on richards marriage 1873 he names richard as father and dosent say deceased , does this mean hes still alive ?
this is the only census i cant find richard 1801 a painter

[renibacterium]

Thanks very much for all your help obbie, much appreciated.

Yes I already had all this info. We think the same. I think Richard senior's wife was either Mary Fetherston or Mary Mayfield both of Ireland, as Richard Freeman (recorded as nephew) (b1873 or74) can be found living with relations (Fetherston(e)'s)  in the 1881 census of England living at 4, Lordship Lake Bruce Terr, Tottenham , London.

It may be that the 3rd generation Richard was left behind when the family moved or visited Ireland, as he was already at school.

Cheers

reni

[obbie]

do you think this could be richards death (painter)
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

richard freeman deaths dec 1878 age 78  Hackney  1b 305

have you traced his wife ?

[renibacterium]

Yes I have seen that one. It could be him. Have not tracked down Mary as yet, she is 22 yrs younger !