Offer: Derbyshire Parish records

[ValJJJ]

Hello Derek

Thanks for the info - would you know if the Matlock records would have actual chapel records or just an index, as I'm after info such as age of William Wardman, father's name, address, anything else, because as you've found, this man is elusive.

I am being a cheapskate by trying to avoid paying for the marriage cert!  See the related thread here: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=828775.0

Charlotte did indeed have a life of problems, and going back through the generations too, as her own mother Ann was not living with her family at quite a young age after Ann's mother died.  I found Ann's father and siblings scattered about in different households.  Charlotte's parents had 11 children, 7 of which died before 1 year old, so she is a survivor!  Her mother was widowed twice, her husband died young, and then William Wardman is a mystery without any other clues.  Charlotte is in the 1911 census at her married sister's address, shown as married, but no William Wardman there.  She was mistranscribed as Hardman, and the word could also be misread as Hardiman, so there are lots of possibilities in the 1911 census.

Val

[Derbysderek]

Hello Val..I think Matlock is an excellent source and I believe the detail with which they describe the archive suggests they have the full Records..........but don't bank on it.
I am a regular visitor to Derbyshire Records Office..and now you have presented me with the sort of problem I love I'll follow through..but obviously Matlock is closed. I'll find him!!
Do we agree that Charlotte came from East Farndon in Northants..that she married George Crook in Derbyshire.and also William Wardman (1902) in Derby??
I haven't looked yet, but are you aware which side of the family was Non conformist? we'll have to find out what Charlotte was doing in Derby......just as a throw away..have you looked at William Wardman in Yorkshire???

[ValJJJ]

Thanks for your interest. 

Yes Charlotte Ann West from E Farndon, Northants (reg office Market Harborough, Leices) married George Crook (b. 1869) in Nottingham not Derbyshire.  I only have the index info so don't know the church/chapel details.  They had two daughters, he died young (1897 in Basford - I haven't verified this but the date/location fits), then she married William Wardman in 1902, Q4.  I'm not sure whether the West family were non-conformists - I have one of Charlotte's siblings christened at a CofE church but not checked the other children.

The Crook family were CofE - the children were christened in the church at Calne, Wilts, where they were all born, but George Crook's widowed mother Ann Crook nee Warren remarried in at a Primitive Methodist Chapel in Matlock Bank to William C Matthews (1889 Q4 Bakewell vol 7b page 1357).

I have quite a lot on the Crook family but William Wardman is a dead end until I can see more info on his marriage cert.   I have looked at a few William Wardmans in search results but the ones I have looked at have a different spouse - I think, but of course I don't do what I should do which is to note my negative searches.

I suspect there is a transcription error and he's hiding in plain sight somewhere in the 1911 census.

[Comberton]

Is this her first marriage?
21st December 1892
St Saviour, Nottingham
George Crook
Charlotte Ann West
Transcription only

[ValJJJ]

Yes it is, altho' I didn't have the exact date, only the quarter, or the church.  Thanks for that.

[ValJJJ]

Also, as Mrs Wardman, in the 1911 census she was listed as married, not a widow, (but was this an error?) in her sister Rosa May Coulson nee West's household in Queen St, Derby. 

Tom and Rosa May Coulson (who had no children) emigrated to Canada in July 1913 and became Canadian citizens.  I found the Coulson family interesting as in 1901 and 1911, Tom's father Alfred (from Scarborough area) was living in their household, in Derby, and his occupation was master mariner, and retired master mariner, respectively.  He was missing from various earlier censuses so presumably at sea, while his wife and children were with his wife's father in Derby.  Hence the Derby connection there.  Alfred did not go to Canada - he died in 1912 in Derby with an address of the Arborteum Hotel, Osmaston Rd, Derby - has anyone come across this place?

Someone mentioned on another thread that William Wardman may have been a mariner, to account for missing census entries.  I looked him up in the masters and mates database on Ancestry and he wasn't there, but he could have just been crew.  There is the possibility that Charlotte met WW via her sister's in-laws, I suppose.

As an aside, the masters and mates database is fascinating as it lists ships, time at sea, addresses when applying to for the exam, and a job title I had not heard of before of 'Only Mate'.  Master and First Mate - yes.  But Only Mate?  Need to look that one up.  Sounds lonely!

[ValJJJ]

Hi again DerbysDerek

I do have another Derbyshire puzzle to whet your appetite, if you're keen?

I'm struggling with the Kirk family, from Chesterfield. I cannot find anyone from this family in the 1911 census, nor the father in the 1901 census, so guess the problem is bad handwriting meaning the names have been mistranscribed.  Plus there are two daughters who may have married in the ten years between.

Here is what I have so far for the family, working backwards.

Samuel Kirk died aged 25 on 1 May 1914 in Greenwich Union Infirmary of TB and buried in Kensington and Chelsea's Hanwell cemetery.  I have the infirmary admission records, his address on admission, occupation hairdresser.  He was married to Rosina Bannister in Chesterfield on 26 Dec 1911, where the marriage cert states that he was a hairdresser, and his father was Richard Kirk, deceased, a fettler. The address on the marriage cert for both of them was that of Rosina and family in Spital. 

In the 1891 census, the Kirk family were at 48 Chatsworth Rd, Brampton, Chesterfield.  Father/head Richard Kirk, 24, born Chesterfield, was a blacksmith. Wife Annie Elizabeth nee Salt, 26, born Chesterfield.  Children all born in Chesterfield, Lily, 4, Samuel, 2,  Eliza 4 months. Mother-in-law Sarah Salt, 66, born Matlock, married, pillbox maker.

In the 1901 census, the family are at a different address, 40 Bank St, Chesterfield, as boarders in the Steele household.  But only Annie Elizabeth Kirk, Lily, Samuel, Eliza and Arthur, age 8.  Annie is shown as married, not a widow, but I cannot find Richard Kirk born Chesterfield in any search results.  Interestingly Rosina and her family were living at 29 Bank St in 1901, so Samuel did marry the girl next door, nearly.

For 1911, I cannot find Richard (but he may have already died), or his wife (unless she had remarried by then - but I have searched for her using first names only, age, place of birth, and not got anywhere), or the daughters (now 24 and 20)  but they may have married.  If working away from home they should have shown up somewhere.  The only likely Arthur Kirk I've found is shown as brother-in-law to the head, George Henry Dunk, but looking at FreeBMD,  he married Alice Kirk. I haven't found a sister Alice Kirk for 'my' family though.   

The whole family seems to have evaporated!  With Samuel making a brief re-appearance in the records to marry, and then die young.

Any ideas please?

Val

[spendlove]

Hi,

Is this your Richard Kirk in 1901

RG 13/3249
Folio 156
Page Number 29

3 Rookery, Baslow Road Chesterfield

Richard Kirk   boarder,  33, Married, Iron Fitter, born Chesterfield

Spendlove

[ValJJJ]

Thanks Spendlove - age, marital status, occupation, place of birth all fit don't they?   I cannot see how I missed this when searching before.  I swear Ancestry produces a different set of search results for the same info each time I look!

Thanks very much.

Wonder what the story was, for the father to be boarding at one address and his wife and children at another?

Baslow Rd (well, the current one anyway) is quite a way from Bank St, although both are given as in Brampton parish so I wonder if what is now called Chatsworth Rd was once Baslow Rd.  I need to look at an old map to see where the Rookery was.

Wonder where/when Richard Kirk died?  By the end of 1911 is all I have based on Samuel's marriage cert.