Contacting orthodox Jewish communities

[JustinL]

So, exactly who are these Midlands ancestors?

[doodleysquat]

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to leave this particular branch of the family where it is, Justin, because some of the family are strongly against my posting about them here, even though we're going back so far. Thank you for all your help: I think I might be able to develop it from here.

[JustinL]

That's a bit of shame. My own Jewish ancestors came fom Germany, so I may have been able to offer you further assistance.

You could always maintain the confidentiality by communicating via personal messages.

Good luck with your research.

[doodleysquat]

Thanks very much, Justin. I haven't given up hope of changing their minds.

[doodleysquat]

Justin....hope you're still there. I've got a bit of a lead which might come to nothing, but I can mention it without upsetting people. There's an Asher Samuels who's only mentioned on the Mormon website (unverified). Someone has posted his death in Kempen, Germany "sometime after 1787". How can I find out more about him or his family (if at all ?) Thank you

[doodleysquat]

If I can find out how to find out who his children were I might be able to see if we're likely to be connected. If nothing else, I can rule him out

Moderator's Note: please see separate thread for Asher Samuel-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,485561.msg3438176.html#msg3438176

[JustinL]

Firstly, you have to establish which Kempen is being referred to. Germany did not exist as a state until 1871; in the 1780s German-speaking territories were part of the Holy Roman Empire of the German People.

When Napoleon's troops occupied the territories on the left bank of the Rhine in the early 1790s, Jews returned to Kempen (near Krefeld) for the first time since the Plague. By 1801, there were only 32 Jewish inhabitants.

Napoleon was responsible for introducing birth, marriage and death registration in the Jewish communities of the occupied territories. As a rule, these were established in about 1812. I can find no indication as to whether such registers were created in Kempen.

The other significantly larger Kempen is now called Kepno; it is in Poland. Prussian troops annexed the western part of Poland in 1793. Jews had first settle there in the late 17th century. I have not investigated what records might be available, but you would need to be able to read German or Polish or Yiddish or all three!

I would imagine that there were a great many Asher Samuels around at the end of the 18th century, but records will be very sparse. You really have to work backwards from the UK censuses of the mid-19th century.

I hope you can convince your extended family that there is no way that anyone here would really be able to (or interested) to tie together immigrants from the mid-19th century (or earlier?) and people living today.

Justin

[doodleysquat]

Thank you very much, Justin. I didn't know about the large "Kempen" in Poland. That far east would be a much more likely location, I think. I was surprised when I thought it might be the Kempen near Krefeld.

Yes, it's certainly a needle in a haystack, but I'm willing to try. (anticipating not getting anywhere) It would be no problem to get someone (or people) to help me with the German, Polish, & Yiddish.

I've got the nineteenth century English census details, but how would I work back ? The family used what we would think of as Jewish names for the first generation in England, but, after that, they used English ones with the odd "Jewish" one thrown in (Jacob became James  or maybe it didn't; maybe they just liked James & a name like Joseph is fairly neutral. There is an Isaac in the generation of the grandchildren, but it's very much a "one off". Names like that, & Abraham etc, were abandoned fairly quickly). But the first generation born in England did have Jewish names.

I realise I'm probably not going to be sucessful, but, if you can tell me  HOW to go about things (if it's at all possible), I will try & take it from there. Thank you

[JustinL]

I have looked at your other posting regarding Asher Samuels and have to confess that it is not entirely clear to me what you know as fact and where your theory about possible ancestors starts.

Am I correct in understanding that you have a Samuel Asher born in the Midlands (Ashby de la Zouch?) to an unknown immigrant father?

The Ashkenazi custom was to name a newborn child after a recently deceased relative, i.e. give the child the Hebrew forename of a deceased relative. Yes, you are correct in thinking that many children were named after their grandparents, BUT only if the grandparent in question was dead. It is not always clear after whom an individual was named.

Prior to the compulsory adoption of fixed surnames by European Jewry, a Samuel Asher could have been the son of an Asher Samuel, who could have himself been the son of a Samuel Asher and so on. In each case the boy/man uses his father's forename as a byname. Therefore Samuel Asher's grandfather could have been also called Samuel Asher.

This is, I must emphasise, complete theoretical speculation with a low probablity of occurence. That logic would not have worked in my Jewish lineage.