1885 Duke of Sutherland Brisbane Passenger

[kentryan55]

Merlin,

Thanks for the tip on checking incoming passengers to UK. Actually I hadn't given that approach any thought at all.  'tis easy to tell that I am quite a novice!

I have no idea why BJR left AUS. The trip was quite a bit easier for him as he had his Uncle Frank Ryan to stay with as well as other extended family in New York and area.  Seems that when the Ryans left Ireland - not all of the brothers or their father left - that some went to US and some to AUS.  I waited too long to ask the whys from those in the know.

Two things of interest on the Oceanic's manifest are:

1) The notation of place of birth as Bundamba, Queensland (possibly the last time he used Bundamba as he completed many other documents listing Brisbane as his place of birth including his US naturalization petition as I recall).

2) He listed an occupation as "Ry porter."  I am not familiar with the term unless he meant he was a porter on a train.

I know that he only returned to Australia once when he was 80 or so.  He planned on going by ship but took a plane after his doctor insisted.  I recall seeing a photo of Great Grandmum Annie Housden Ryan on one of her trips here but I have no idea about dates.  There were probably other Australian visitors to US but I am unaware.  I do believe that one of my Dad's cousins lived in moved to Canada and then back to AUS and that his daughter paid my folks a visit in 1970s.

Thanks, I have access to Ancestry but must upgrade for records worldwide.  Was kinda short sighted of me not to have done so in the beginning.

[~MERLIN~]

He listed an occupation as "Ry porter."  I am not familiar with the term unless he meant he was a porter on a train.

Yes, that occupation would be a railway porter either on trains or stations.

[Ruskie]

Someone may be able to assist you with the details of the voyage on Ancestry, rather than you having to alter your subscription.  

If Bernard had relatives in the US that could be reason enough for him to travel there. Then perhaps it was as simple as him liking the US, getting a job or meeting a girl which may have been reason enough for him to decide to stay.  

[Aussie1947]

On the ships manifest for Bernard John Ryan under last permanent residence it is written Wallangarra Queensland also under the name and address of nearest relative it is written father, Mr Ryan of Wallangarra Queensland.

It looks like Bernard was only visiting the UK before going to the US and not residing there!

On Bernards US Declaration of Intention for Naturalization he signed in 1914 his place of birth was Brisbane and under the heading " I emigrated to the United States of America from"  it says Sydney Australia on the veseel Oceanic.

Maybe this also indicates again a short stay in the UK!

Bernard states on his Petition For Naturalzation application completed in 1917 that the Oceanic left Liverpool on 26th June 1910 and arrived NY 6th July 1910.

Gerry

 
 

[kentryan55]

Gerry,

Thanks for the information you provided.

As I wrote previously, I am new to this family genealogy business and know I have a lot to learn.  One thing that I have recognized right off the bat is that things recorded on all sorts of official forms are oft times in error.  I think that my grandfather Bernard John Ryan may have been a participant - for some reasons unknown to me - "in the recording things in error bit." 

For example, the Oceanic's ships manifest for the run from Southampton UK that arrived in NYC on 6 July 1910 contains a two page wide record for each passenger.  In space 29 of Bernard John Ryan's record all the way to the right of page 2, he recorded his place of birth as "Queensland Bundamba."  Thereafter he stated on various forms his place of birth to be Brisbane.  I can't explain his later lapses.  I sure would like to examine the US Immigration's official entry records - I think the answer may be there.  I have other German relatives whose names were changed or assigned new spellings on entry to US or very soon thereafter.

For a number of reasons, I believe the place of birth on the ships manifest is the correct one. Someone in a previous post above kindly provided the Queensland birth record number for BJR and commented that his was not a Brisbane birth because the number was not preceded by letter B.  As part of my continuing research, I will try to solve this small mystery by obtaining BJR's birth record copy.

I would also like to examine the US Immigration record. Is anyone aware of any available records that the US Immigration folks kept on immigrants beyond the ship manifests?

[Aussie1947]

Kentryan55

I thik it would have been easy to write Brisbane instead of Bundamba because Brisbane was the major centre with Bundamba on the edge of it.  In 1889 Bundamba probably was in the Ipswich Registration District and not Brisbane hence "C" on his birth registration.  Today Bundamba is within the Ipswich Local government area.

For interest it was called Bundanba but changed to Bundamba in 1932.

I have done the same as what BJR did, I was born in a place called Belmont near Newcastle in NSW but I often say that I was born at Newcastle I even have put that on some documents in the past,  people have heard of Newcastle but maybe not Belmont.

My Grandfather just has New York as his place of birth on his marriage certificate!

The only immigration papers that I can see are his naturalization declaration in 1914 and petition in 1917 and on the former he states born in Brisbane Australia and the latter Brisbane Australia.

On his WW2 Registration form in 1942 he states Brisbane Australia as his birth place.

On his naturalization declaration he also stated that his foreign residence was Brisbane Australia, when it was probably Wallangarra. 

What is interesting is that on the same document he stated that he immigrated to the US from Sydney on the Oceanic when we know the passenger manifest states Liverpool to NY.  Could it be that the Oceanice went Sydney to Liverpool to NY with BJR on board and he didn't get off the vessel.!

I have a similar issue with my German past the Surname AUL in Detershagen Germany became AUHL on arrival in Port Adelaide in the mid 1800s.  My Grandfather changed from Stewart to Stuart and added a middle name as well.  Name variation were fairly common and just add to the mysteries.

Wonder what brought him to the US

Gerry
 

[Ruskie]

I was going to say something similar to Gerry. Bernard probably got sick of spelling Bundamba, the 'authorities' may not have known where it was, so he just told them the nearest known large town. He may have said he lived at "Bundamba near Brisbane" so it was simpler for them to just write Brisbane". I don't think he was being intentionally misleading or telling fibs. By Australian standards they're very close together anyway - just up the road. 

It seems he may have gone to the US to visit family ...