My Brickwall

[meggles]

Hi Joan
This infomation is fantasitc - thank you so much for sharing it with me.
And yes I also feel confident that these are my twins Charles and Thomas.
The other brothers were
Edward - a seaman - died at sea
William - a seaman and labourer - died in denbury
James - a seaman - dont know what happened to him
Richard - a labourer- never went to sea and died in Topsham (also had a twin sister)
so sorry no George.
I am still looking for Thomas's 2nd marriage to Sarah Ridgeway - do you think it is possible that they married in St Johns?  It seems strange to me also that they waited so long to christening their children and they did it all in the same year weeks apart - 1861 making one of the children 9 years old.
I am hoping that if I find Thomas's 2nd marriage I will be able to get his father - John Harris's occupation
Again thank you so much for your information
Cheers
Megan

[jopha1824]

Megan, I don't remember Ridgway as a St. John's name, but you never know, it might show up in Thomas' record when it comes in.  I have an elusive clue that a James Harris died 1834. Nothing more than that, but I'll wait to see what's in his record too.  I don't even remember where that info came from, or if he is possibly from your family.  I just keep everything I find with the Harris name on it, and only now I'm trying to put it into family groups.  If i can help someone out along the way, it makes it worthwhile.  You're the third person in two weeks I've been able to fill in family gaps for.  Nfld. was relatively uninhabited until the early 18oo's.  People were banned from living there until about 1815.  There were some settlements approved and of course those who chose to live there in spite of the laws, but St. John's at that time had a very low population.  The church records that were lost were Methodist, and not many records in the papers etc. only 45,000 for the whole of the 1800's.  So you see, when I can help someone out it's exciting for me.  I'll certainly get back to you once my paperwork comes in. Now I know what names to look for.
Joan

[jopha1824]

Hi Megan,  Hopefully some of this will help you:
JAMES:  Jan 1798 James born son of John & Mary
1821 - 14 June-16 Nov BT 98/14 James age 22 Denbury in NFLD on 'Lovely Sally' of Torquay owner John Walters
1829 - March - Denbury, James died age 17 (not your James but might be helpful)
1829 - March - Denbury, James/Elizabeth (mariner) had son John
1831 - Aug. Denbury - James/Elizabeth had daughter Sarah Fox
1833 - Nov Denbury - James/Elizabeth (seaman) had son William
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William: 1816 - 4Apr-27 Nov. 167/39 William on 'Friendship' John bulley Nfld ship
1818 - Oct. Denbury William/Mary had daughter Mary Ann
1826 Denbury William/Mary had daughter Sarah
1832  Sept. Denbury William/Mary had daughter Maria
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Jenkin Harris 1812 - 25Mar - 29 Nov  BT 167/39 Jenkin of Torbrian on 'Unity' Wm. Gasking Nfld ship.
1818 - St. John's Anglican - Jenkn Harris Torbay married Elizabeth Codner Torbay (William Harris was a witness)
NOTE:  I wonder if Jenkin is a cousin of William and William was in St. John's at the time?
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Edward Harris - 1673 March Denbury Edward buried
1730 Dec. Denbury - Edward (seaman) had son John Patherick
1796 Feb. denbury - Edward born son of John/Mary
1818 - 27 Mar-20 Oct BT 167/39 Edward Denbury on 'Ann' mat Bowden dis. Nfld.
1821 - 5 Apr -16 Nov bt. 98/14 Edward age 24 Denbury on 'Lovely Sally' of Torquay John Walters Nfld.
1822 - 7 Apr -17 Nov  BT 98/14 Edward age 26 Torbrian on 'Lovely Sally' of Torquay John Walters Nfld. ship
1835 Nov - Denbury Edward/Ann (Mariner) had daughter Mary Ann
1840 Dec. Denbury Edward died age 57. (this entry mustn't be your Edward - age
 doesn't agree)
~~~~~~~~-------------------
1794 - Thomas/Chas twins John/Mary of Torbrian
1820 - 25 Mar - 27 Nov  BT 98/14 Thos. age 24 Denbury on '2 Bros' of Torquay mat Tinkem - Labrador.
1821 - 20 Apr -1 Sept bt 98/14 Thos at Torquay on '2 Bros' mat. Tucker dis. Nfld.
1821 Sept. Denbury Thos/Maria (seaman) had son John
1822  20 Apr-28 Nov.  BT 98/14 Thomas age 29 Denbury on '2 Bros' Mat Tinkem Nfld
1823 - same as 1822 entry
1826 Aug Denbury  Thomas/Maria (seaman) had sons Francis/Charles
After 1826 'Denbury' is not listed beside any of the Thomas entries but it looks like he is living in St. John's until well into the 1840's.  Either the 'Mary' the 'Gleaner' or the 'Arrow' are possible ships.  'Mary' went to Teignmouth and back to St. John's; Gleaner went regularly to Portugal and back to St. John's and occasionally to Torquay. Also the 'Arrow' which made various trips.  Sorry I can't be more specific here.
Here's an interesting story about the 'Gleaner' - 1833 Feb 26 - Gazette - Gleaner news Lisbon to Nfld towed to Torquay 29 Dec. by pilot slop. Left Lisbon 22229 Oct. got to 4-5 miles from St. John's 2nd December in a snow storm, lost one man, both masts and boats carried away.
~~~~~~~~-------------------
JOHN - This is where you find out about Papa Harris!
1787 Torbrian - John married Mary Snell.
1779 - Lloyds - John Harris owner/Captain '2 Bros' sp. 30/6 built Britain exon-Guernsay.
1789 Oct. Denbury John/Mary had son William
John was Captain of 2 Bros and then son Thomas took it over.
1815 3 Apr - 3 Dec BT 167/39 John Denbury on Friendship John Bulley Nfld ship
1816 4 Apr - 27 Nov. BT 167/39 John Denbury on 'Friendship' John Bulley NFLD ship
1817 25 Mar - 18 Nov BT 167/39 John Denbury on Friendship  Wm Mills NFLD ship.
~~~~~~~~------------------
Edward 1827 24 Oct. Denbury -   '2 bros' St. John's to Torquay 530 qtls mist.

Hopefully this will fill in some of your blanks.  Any questions - let me know.
Joan
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[meggles]

Hi Joan
What Fantastic information - My Big mystery was John Harris and what he did for a occupation - You have solved my mystery and given me some extra info to work with.
You are right about the Edward Harris and the wrong death - I got that death Certificate many years ago when I was searching for Edwards death - and this Edward Harris was a Yeoman and his sister Maria Smith was present at his death. - My Edward Harris Died at sea (this is on his wife's headstone)
sometime between 1835 - 1840 and I do wonder if he went down on the same ship as Charles did.
Under Edward Harris you have 1673  March Denbury Edward Buried - what does this mean?
Thank you again for such great information and I really hope that you have found the information that you have been searching for.
Cheers  Megan

[jopha1824]

Hi Megan.  I just included the 1673 death information on Edward in case you didn't have it.  I don't even know if this particular Edward was a relative.  I don't think your Edward continued on the Newfoundland runs, but he was probably a seaman.  I would think there are several other entries that could be John's too, but they are not identified by Torbrian or Denbury.  There are even some Harrises from St. John's on the same ships your boys were on.  It keeps me wondering where my guys came from.  It was interesting going through all these records.  I didn't find out anything new for me though.  I guess if my people aren't in the records anywhere, I'm just not going to find them.  Glad I could help you out though.  Makes it all worthwhile.
Joan