Help Needed - IRONS in Middlesex

[voltarei]

Hi All,
I am trying to locate (without success) a William Irons.
I have the baptisms for 3 of his children in Clerkenwell.
Emily Sarah, Isabel Ethel and William Felix, all baptised on the same day in 1879.

Their parents are quoted as being William & Emma, with William being a brickmaker.

I can find Emma and the children on census returns from 1871 onwards, but William is never with the family. Emma is listed as a widow by 1891.

I have also found some criminal records that may relate to William Irons, for Clerkenwell in the 1880's, which may account for him not being at home, as he was imprissonned a couple of times.

I am trying to discover where he was born, his parents, and where he is on every census return.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thank you
Phil

[softly softly]

Hi
married 17.10.1891 Emily Sarah Irons address 11 Malvern Terrace to Albert Edwrad Millard St Andrew's Islington. Father William Irons - contractor -deceased witnessess William Felix Irons and Isabel Ethel Irons.

John

[softly softly]

Some notes for back burner.

1861 census rg9 142 87 15 has a William Irons aged 23 (c1838) born Islington
with wife Kate aged 20. Williams occupation is carman & CONTRACTOR. This is mentioned as William's occupation in both Isabel's and Emily's marriage certification.
born 8.11.1837 baptised 7.1.1838 William Irons parents George Irons -BRICKMAKER and Sarah address river lane. Family appear together in 1851 ref ho107 1502 412 42.

John

[voltarei]

Hi John,
Thanks for pointing out these facts.
I had already investigated the possibility that William married Kate, however I know that William married Emma, and William & Kate appear on the census after the date that William married Emma.
However - William is NEVER at home with Emma, so maybe he is a bigamist and has two wives???!!?!?!

Everything that you have said fits in with my research that George & Sarah were his parents, and after all, William did call his children Emily Sarah, and a son George James.

I am really confused about the situation, and to make matters worse, his fifth child (my direct ancestor) Annie, used the name Annie Helen Irons when she was married in 1896, but her baptism lists her as Annie Matthews Irons. Of course the Matthews fits in with her mother being Emma Elizabeth Matthews, so I am sure it is correct, but why would she change her name?

The whole family are either trying to be secretive, or are just too daft to know what they are doing.

Any thoughts?

Cheers
Phil

[voltarei]

John,
To add further confusion, I have a record of the only William Irons to die between 1882-1891 and it states that he is a contractor  in Stoke Newington (correct area), but he leaves his estate worth £6000 to his wife Caroline......
The plot thickens..

Phil

[softly softly]

Phil,
Perhaps Kate is Caroline!!

John

[jorose]

I can't see the marriage of William and Emma - do you have this certificate?

I do see what looks like Emma in 1881 ("Hison") and in 1871 as "Matthews" with Emily and Isabel (same ages same birthplaces same occupation for Emma).

Several of the children seem to have changed names or added them - Isabel is registered as plain "Isabel Irons", for example. "William Felix" I think is registered as "Willie Irons Matthews" (he's "Willie" in the 1881 census, too).

[softly softly]

Jorose, like the way you think. Looks as though they had other children.
1 William Herbert Irons Matthews-dec q 1865 Islington 1b 274
2 Margaretta Irons Matthews mar q 1868 Clerkenwell 1b 692 - died aged 2 June q 1870 Holborn 1b 432.
3 Willie Irons Matthews june q 1872 holborn 1b 661.
My own experience in my own family line with 2nd christian name the same as fathers surname has never let me find a marriage for the couple. I suspect William Irons was still married but separated.

John

[voltarei]

Hi Both,
Thanks for the continued support with this.

I had missed the children registered as Matthews with Irons as middle names, but this now helps to clarify the situation.
It does appear that William & Emma never married (my earlier post saying that I knew they were married was a presumption because they had baptised children together)

So William DID have two families on the go. Kate/Caroline was the person he left his money to, but they had no children together, and Emma was the one that gave birth to his offspring.

I'm sure there is more to be uncovered, so if you do spot anything, please let me know.
I am happier now you have helped make sense of a strange situation.

Cheers
Phil