ADVICE PLEASE?

[flocklet]

Greetings friends all over! After a few years & grey hairs! I have found a promising lead, but am in a quandry what to do next. Details are: For all papers up to now, the name I am chasing is HOLTON, with a middle name of WENLOCK. With no luck other than a marriage of a Francis Wenlock HOLTON in 1850 in Manchester Cathedral Lancashire. Then I find a Richard Wenlock HOLTON death in Clapham in 1806, leaving a widow Frances FARRAND. Recently on a well known website, I find a Richard Wenlock marrying a Frances FARRAND! So apparantly the middle name is now a surname!! Can anyone please advise firstly why do this? And secondly, where to now.
Apologies if I've "woffled" on too much, thought I'd give as much info as possible.
Thank you in advance 
Stella

[lizdb]

Hi Stella
It is difficult to advise, on what appears to be just a random collection of names! What are you trying to do - have you fitted them together in any form of tree?

The best approach is a methodical one, starting with the most recent confirmed event and moving back, and in that always confirming each step from as many sources as possible before moving on to the next.

So - have you worked back tracing and confirming as you go, to the marriage in1850? If so, then you should see from the nmarriage cert the name and occupation of the groom father. And have you found that couple in 1851 just after their marriage and on subsequent censuses - that will give you a year and place of birth for them.

Names change over generations, especially in the case of children born before marriage and subsequently taking a step father / father's name, so I wouldnt make too many assumptions about the surname until you trace the facts.

[Valda]

Hi

I can see a

Marriages Jun 1850   
HOLTON  Mary Ann Wenlock     Manchester  20 526
Eccleston  James     Manchester  20 526

but I can't see a Francis Wenlock Holton's marriage. Do you mean Mary Ann Wenlock Holton was the daughter of a Francis Wenlock Holton?

5th August 1848 All Souls, Langham Place Marylebone Middlesex
Henry Eccleston Full Bachelor Clerk in the Law All Souls District James Eccleston Coppersmith
Emily Sophia Wenlock Holton Full Spinster All Souls District Francis Holton Dealer Deceased
Both signed
Witnesses Wm? Muirhead and Mary Ann Wenlock Holton

23rd December 1848 All Souls, Langham Place, Marylebone Middlesex
William McNaught Muirhead Full Bachelor Bookseller All Souls District John Muirhead Innkeeper
Elizabeth Frances Wenlock Holton Full Spinster All Souls District Francis Holton Dealer Deceased
Both signed
Witnesses James Muirhead, John McNaught and Mary Ann Wenlock Holton


9th September 1823 St Mary at Lambeth Surrey
Francis Wenlock Holton
Sophia Chandler
Both of the parish bachelor and spinster
Both signed
Witnesses Thos Chandler and Wm Sefton

Six children (5 girls and a son who died young) baptised between and 1835 in Lambeth, Brixton and Merton


Deaths Jun 1844  HOLTON  Francis Wenlock    St. Jas. Westr.  1 89


Prerogative Court of Canterbury will

Will of Francis Henlock Holton, China Glass and Earthenware Manufacturers of Saint James's Piccadilly , Middlesex 04 May 1844 PROB 11/1998 
 

1841 census HO107 736/10
? Street St James Westminster
Francis Holton 35 China Ma? born in county
Sophia Holton 35 not born in county
Mary Holton 15 not born in county
Emily Holton 13 not born in county
Eliz Holton 11 not born in county
Henry Holton 9 not born in county
Sophia Holton 8 not born in county
Adult ages, those over 15, usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census


This is the Wenlock marriage you mention


10th October 1797 St Mary at Lambeth Surrey
Richard Wenlock
Frances Farrand
Batchelor and spinster of the parish
Both signed
Witnesses W Gawler and Richard ?


Does Francis' will in 1844 mention a mother?

Clapham Holy Trinity Lambeth 26th November 1847
Frances Holton aged 84 years, Park Road

1841 census HO107 1053/6 folio 24
Newmans Place Park Road Clapham Surrey
Frances Holton 75 Laundress born in county

This woman would be a little old to be the mother of Francis. Do you have Francis' age at death to establish a more exact birth year than the 1841 census gives?


However despite Frances' possible age there are potential children of the marriage

FRANCIS WENLOCK
Christening:  12 JUL 1801   Saint Andrew, Enfield, London
Father:  RICHARD WENLOCK 
Mother:  FRANCES

siblings

RICHARD WENLOCK   
Christening:  03 JUN 1798   Saint Andrew, Enfield, London
Father:  RICHARD WENLOCK 
Mother:  FRANCES 

MARY WENLOCK 
Christening:  30 JUN 1805   Saint Andrew, Enfield, London
Father:  RICHARD WENLOCK 
Mother:  FRANCES 

which would just fit with the Mary Holton aged 2 buried at Clapham in 1808


1851 census HO107 1577 folio 367
Wandsworth and Clapham Union Workhouse Battersea, Surrey
Richard Holton 52 Inmate Unmarried Grocer (Master)  Enfield, Middlesex


Possible death registration

Deaths Dec 1856   
HOLTON  Richard     Wandsworth  1d 253



Regards

Valda

[snowball]

Hi,
Francis Wenlock Holton as a shopkeeper in Brixton Hill in 1836: http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/19375/pages/711 (second column)
Regards
Rob

[dawnsh]

I can't post the links to previous topics as there are so many (34), but before anyone spends more time doing searches etc, please do a rootschat search with the terms 'holton wenlock' and the user 'flocklet' and have a look at the detailed information already found on these families.

Dawn

[flocklet]

Firstly, to Lizdb, I apologise if it looked like it was a random collection of names. I was mentioning the Wenlock / Holton relationships, without "boring" everyone with long details. I have a copy of Francis Wenlock Holton's marriage in 1850, with no mention of occupation of grooms father. I have the 1841 census with him & family. Thank you for your message.
To Valda, thank you so much for all your searching efforts. Tremendous!
I have the remaining daughters, 2 sisters married 2 brothers by name of Eccleston.
I have absolutely no details on Francis wife, Sophia, other than she dies in 1848 aged 47. I have the children 5 girls & a boy. Although in the 1851 census there is a Henry aged 9. The boy on the IGI is a John Wenlock Holton?
I have Francis's will, & there is no mention of a mother, leaves all to his wife.
To Snowball, many thanks also for your help. I have found that unfortunately Francis was not a terrific shopkeeper, as he goes bankrupt twice!
Thank you also to Dawnsh, who explained other posts. On the Richard Wenlock -England Marriages,1538-1973, it gives Batch number. Am I able to  order a micro-film to gain copy?Is this the best next step? Thank you all for your help.Stella

[Valda]

Hi

Other than the surname of the second witness on the 1797 marriage (closer look and it looks like Rebecca somebody, not Farrand, Wenlock or Holton though) you have all the information from that marriage. Gawler was a common witness at St Mary Lambeth - parish clerk.

10th October 1797 St Mary at Lambeth Surrey
Richard Wenlock
Frances Farrand
Batchelor and spinster of the parish
Both signed
Witnesses W Gawler and Richard ?

Have you seen the actual Enfield registers though it is unlikely that they would give much further information - abode and father's occupation at most?


Regards

Valda

[flocklet]

Hi,
A year ago I had looked through the film for Enfield, as I was searching further afield, & found these entries, but dismissed them because they were WENLOCK with no mention of HOLTON
Now it seems they were the ones. I think I'll re-order them. I live in country Western Australia, so it will take a little while.At least then I will have sighted them, & perhaps gain a little more.
Thanks again
Stella