Ryan shot by IRA in Hyne's/Shanahan's pub

[corisande]

Those with better knowledge of Dublin geography may be able to answer this for me. I am trying to find out exactly where John Ryan a British Intelligence agent was shot in Dublin 5th Feb 1921

John Ryan was, at least to all intents and purposes, a serving British soldier. But he was certainly also an undercover man, whose name may not have been Ryan. He had been targeted by the IRA for his part in the arrest of McKee and Clancy on the eve of Bloody Sunday.

I have a write up of what I know about Ryan and his death here

There seems to be some confusion as where Ryan was shot, It may all be the same place

1. Dwyer in The Squad gives the pub as Hyne's on the corner of Old Glouchester Place and Corporation St

2. Other sources (including would you believe a pub in Arizona, who claim to have bought an restored the original pub bar) quote he venue as "Phil Shanahan’s pub" in either Corporation St or Lower Foley St

3. And another source quotes that Ryan was shot at the Five Lamps, North Strand Road.

4. At the time Ryan was living at 16 Railway St with his wife

The only report I can find is in London Times which just says "a public house"

Can anyone help me make sense of the venue  this shooting

[shanew147]

a few street name changes involved here so - be warned this gets messy!

Gloucester Place (marked on map below, but spelt Gloster) crossed both Gloucester street and Tyrone St - part of this later became Railway St.  I think Gloucester Place may also have been known as Gloucester Diamond, and was redeveloped in the early 20thC

Thom's 1914 lists Corporation street as off Talbot street..I've marked Talbot street in green. In the street listing Corporation St is listed with the notation 'formerly Mabbot St'  (I think the modern name is James Joyce st, with Mabbot Lane next to it)

At the Waterford st. of Corporation street in 1914 there's was a grocer, wine & spirit merchant named Mathew & Martin. Waterford street was earlier part of Tyrone St. .

I've marked my guess for the location for Mathew & Martin in blue.. it might fit with the location for Hyne's in later years


Shane

[corisande]

Shane

Thanks very much for that I (think I) understand the changes in names now. I think therefore you are correct in positioning Hynes Bar - mind you with the redevelopment I can see it is an inexact science

This is the modern map


So do you think Hynes and Shanahans were the same place. Certainly the place in USA that has bought the memorabilia believe that that is where Ryan was shot, but Dwyer is quoting Hynes.

I think I can rule out the place on North Strand Road

[shanew147]

Thom's 1927 lists a possible connection :

  T. Hynes, tea & wine merchant, 12 Gloucester Place lwr

The listing is in the merchants and traders index, but I dont see him listed in the street listing.



Shane

[shanew147]

Foley Street is to the east of Mabbot street on the map, and named Montgomery street at the time.. all quite close to each other - so maybe one of the stories has the exact location mixed up.

Will check for Shanahan also..



Shane

[corisande]

Yes

that looks about right for Hynes, and he is a wine merchant as well. I would put it on the cross of Gloucester Place Lower and Lower Sean MacDermott

I gather the purpose of Ryan living in Railway St was to keep an eye on the pub where Collins was known to frequent.

McKee and Clancy, the two IRA men Ryan is believed to have fingered were holed up at Sean Fitzpatrick's house 36 Gloucester Street. I don't know if he could see both the pub and that house from his front window, but it does not look as if it was far off.

[shanew147]

just to complicate things...

Thom's 1927 shows a  P. Shanahan grocer & publican - he appears to located at the Amiens Street end of Foley Street.


Shane

[corisande]

so maybe one of the stories has the exact location mixed up.

That is the most probable explanation. Trouble these days with the web is that if a bit of duff info gets posted, before you know it, it has been cut and pasted many, many times. If in addition, a pub in Arizona has bought the "real McCoy" for the site of Ryan's shooting, they have a vested interest in continuing to believe that was it.

There is a Wikipedia bit on Shanahan the man, but nothing about a pub he might have owned.

[corisande]

Amiens Street end of Foley Street.

So we seem now  to be heading for them being two different pubs

The Shanahan seems to be
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Shanahan which fits with your "P Shanahan"

oops wrong one, should be
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Shanahan