Author Topic: Durham Militia - 1st Royal Veteran Bat. 1780's -1809  (Read 14499 times)

Offline Artie

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Re: Durham Militia - 1st Royal Veteran Bat. 1780's -1809
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 06 January 11 13:11 GMT (UK) »

I'll certainly let you know if I uncover your ancestor, John.  If you are going to sift through all the regiments which served in Ireland during that period it might be like searching for the proverbial needle as the place was awash with British military units, many of which were constantly on the move.

Artie.

Offline Bonzo Kelly

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Re: Durham Fencibles
« Reply #19 on: Friday 11 March 11 10:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi Arty

I recently visited The National Archives and had a look at the muster rolls of the Durham Fencible Infantry, plus a few other Fencible regiments. As you suggested, there is no trace of John Smurthwaite in the musters of the Durham Fencible Infantry, but in searching through the musters what jumped out at me was the name John Whitesmith. A John Whitesmith attested for the regiment on 26 May 1795 and was discharged on 5 June 1802 when the regiment was disbanded. Smurthwaite is a fairly unusual surname, concentrated in Co Durham and parts of Yorkshire, and is a variant of the surname Smithwhite. The surname Whitesmith is even more unusual, and it seems more than coincidental that a John Whitesmith was serving in a regiment of about 300 men in which one might have expected to find someone with the name John Smithwhite, or a variant.  This leads me to suppose that perhaps John Smurthwaite enlisted in the Durham Fencibles under the assumed name of John Whitesmith. John Smurthwaite was baptised on 8 January 1778, so had probably been born in late 1777. If John Smurthwaite and John Whitesmith were one and the same person, he would have been about seventeen and a half years old when he enlisted and presumably had a good reason for enlisting under an assumed name. 

The discharge date of 5 June 1802 at Liverpool fits with the first recorded event known for John Smurthwaite (apart from his own baptism) being the baptism of his second daughter, Jane Smurthwaite (who had been born on 3 June 1802) on 8 July 1802 at St Nicholas, Durham. His first daughter had been born on 11 August 1799 in Ireland (date from the baptism record; location from the 1851 census) but was not baptised until 2 January 1803, at Durham. It seems probable that he met his wife, Agnes Latta, who had been born in Irvine in Ayrshire, somewhere in Ireland in 1798.

I have found various references (from books on the history of Ireland that have been digitised on the Internet) to the Durham Fencibles and their involvement in the Battle of Arklow in June 1798, and have also noted the places mentioned in the muster rolls, but was wondering whether you have any further information, or have compiled a chronological listing of the regiment’s locations in Ireland.

Kind regards

John

Offline Artie

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Re: Durham Militia - 1st Royal Veteran Bat. 1780's -1809
« Reply #20 on: Monday 14 March 11 20:33 GMT (UK) »
An interesting mystery, John, which poses two propositions:
(1)  If your John Smurthwaite/Whitesmith was in County Wexford in August 1799 I suggest you look at births in and around Gorey where the Durham Fencible Infantry were based at that time.
(2)  Could he have met his wife Agnes while they were stationed at Ayr during the summer of 1797 prior to their deployment to Ireland?

Regards,
Artie.

Offline Bonzo Kelly

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Re: Durham Fencibles
« Reply #21 on: Monday 14 March 11 21:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi Artie

Thanks for your reply.

I had not picked up that the Durham Fencibles were stationed in Ayr in the summer of 1797. I noted that they were in Guernsey from 1795 to 1797, then various locations in Ireland. It had puzzled me as to why Agnes was in Ireland, so meeting John Smurthwaite in her home area makes much more sense, and adds further weight to John Smurthwaite being the same person as John Whitesmith.

I have come across various references to the book on the Durham Fencibles by Vane, privately published in 1912, of which only 100 copies were printed. The only copy I have been able to locate is at Durham Record Office. I will have a look at it the next time I am in the north east (I live in the south west of England), but if you have consulted it perhaps you could let me know whether it is worth looking at. I'd also be interested in knowing how your book is getting on.

Kind regards

John


Offline Artie

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Re: Durham Militia - 1st Royal Veteran Bat. 1780's -1809
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 15 March 11 17:17 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for your response, John.

Yes, I have a copy of Vane's small pocketbook which is really the only publication specific to the Durham Fencibles.  It was a useful outline but for your own search it might not be worth a special trip up to Durham.  Although Vane was a descendant of one of the original commanding officers and accessed what you have already gleaned at Kew, he obviously wasn't familiar with the minutiae or the geography of Ireland.  His interpretation of some of the handwriting of records is suspect, which is one reason for my attempting to attack the subject, others being that I live here in the north east and that the cavalry regiment was coincidentally located for a couple of years in my wife's birthplace in County Tipperary.

I would be fascinated to discover if you do manage to pin down whether Smurthwaite and Whitesmith are one and the same person.

As far as publication is concerned, I am in the process of dotting some 'I's' and dotting the 'T's' before putting it to bed.

Regards,

Artie.

Offline Alwina

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Re: Durham Militia - 1st Royal Veteran Bat. 1780's -1809
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 07 January 12 11:22 GMT (UK) »
hI
I have read with interest a your postings on the Durhams, and wonder if anyone can help. My ancestor was John Cathie he married Sarah Faulkner at St.Nicholas, Durham City in 1795. Occupation a sergeant in The Durham Fencibles in 1796 Sergaent Major John Cathie,viceWalton was promoted to Ensign. His first child Sarah was born in Guernsey then two more in Ireland by 1809 he was living in London.
Firstly can anyone one tell me where I can get further information on him, and secondly what was or is a Vice Walton?
Thanks
Alwina
Kemp. Bloom. Reynolds. Saul. Norfolk
Cathie Durham.Ireland.London
Walker. London
Cutts. Rawlinson. Suffolk
Langmead. London Dorset. Cornwall

census information Crown Copyright.
from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Bonzo Kelly

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Re: Durham Militia - 1st Royal Veteran Bat. 1780's -1809
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 07 January 12 11:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi Alwina

The only records of John Cathie's military service are likely to be the muster rolls of the Durham Fencibles held at The National Archives at Kew. I think Artie has extracted a lot of the information and may be able to help. The muster rolls will give information on the places he served in and his rank at various times, but no information on his ancestry or family.

Vice Walton suggests he was 'acting up' in place of someone called Walton, in the same way that a Vice-Chairman may act in place of the Chairman in certain circumstances. The Latin word Vice means 'in place of'.

Best wishes

John

Offline Alwina

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Re: Durham Militia - 1st Royal Veteran Bat. 1780's -1809
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 07 January 12 12:00 GMT (UK) »
Thank you
Alwina
Kemp. Bloom. Reynolds. Saul. Norfolk
Cathie Durham.Ireland.London
Walker. London
Cutts. Rawlinson. Suffolk
Langmead. London Dorset. Cornwall

census information Crown Copyright.
from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Alwina

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Re: Durham Militia - 1st Royal Veteran Bat. 1780's -1809
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 07 January 12 13:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi John
I have just been checking out names again and notice that your John Smurthwaite was married to and Ann Cathey 10.08.1794. Would she have been related to my John Cathie.
Also are the Durham Fencible regiment connected to the Scottish regiment as they seem to come up together in searches?
Regards
Alwina
Kemp. Bloom. Reynolds. Saul. Norfolk
Cathie Durham.Ireland.London
Walker. London
Cutts. Rawlinson. Suffolk
Langmead. London Dorset. Cornwall

census information Crown Copyright.
from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk