Author Topic: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there  (Read 18023 times)

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 19 October 10 12:09 BST (UK) »
The Edlyn Arms could well have been recorded in the Hertfordshire Visitations.  Unfortunately 1572 visitation which would be the relevant one is not one of those to which I have access either online or in my local reference library.  Can anyone confirm that they are not recorded?

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Stephen J F Plowman

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 19 October 10 12:48 BST (UK) »
The Edlyn Arms could well have been recorded in the Hertfordshire Visitations.  Unfortunately 1572 visitation which would be the relevant one is not one of those to which I have access either online or in my local reference library.  Can anyone confirm that they are not recorded?

I've just looked in my copy of The Visitations of Hertfordshire 1572 and 1634.  The only Edlin entry is an unnamed daughter of an unnamed Edlin of Middlesex marrying a John Warren of Harrow.  The Middlesex Pedigrees has a Joane Reding (of Cannons in Pinner) marrying a Richard Edlyn but no Arms.  The 1663/4 Visitations of London mentions the marriage of two daughters of Richard Edlin of Pinner but again no Arms.

I've also checked the site Armigerous Ancestors and the only Edlin listed there was disclaimed (not entitled to Arms) in 1687 viz:

 Name and other information    County   Disclaimed?   
 Edlin, Abram of Lorriner, 1687  London  Yes

Yours aye

Stephen


 
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Also British Heraldry (www.heraldry-online.org.uk)

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 19 October 10 13:31 BST (UK) »
Thanks Stephen.

The problem with the Harleian copy of the visitations to which I think you are referring is that the dates of pedigrees seem to indicate that most if not all of the information comes from the 1634 visitation.  It is some years since I looked at it but I seem to remember not being able to find entries from the 1572 visitation.

I can fit most  of the others that you mention into their Edlin families.

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Stephen J F Plowman

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 19 October 10 14:00 BST (UK) »
David

Try here:

http://www.archive.org/details/visitationshert00philgoog

Looking at my copy, the first 24 pages are from 1572, 25 to 108 are from 1634 and the two appendices cover pedigrees from other documents.  It seems the 1669 Visitation has been lost.

Yours aye

Stephen

Plowman - Dorset
Gollop - Dorset
Taunton - Dorset
Carver - Norfolk
Oyns - all
Tweedy - all
Also British Heraldry (www.heraldry-online.org.uk)


Offline Stephen J F Plowman

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #22 on: Friday 22 October 10 16:43 BST (UK) »
I wasn't too happy with the fess and ermine.  Another attempt.
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Also British Heraldry (www.heraldry-online.org.uk)

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #23 on: Friday 22 October 10 22:20 BST (UK) »
The blazon specifies that the shield should be:

Ermine, a fess vairy, or and gules

In all the examples that I can find of a fess vair or vairy there is only one row not three as you have shown.

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Stephen J F Plowman

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #24 on: Friday 22 October 10 22:44 BST (UK) »
The only thing that is fixed in heraldry is the blazon.  How it is interpreted can be quite varied.

A fess is normally about a third of the height of the shield.  That can make a single row rather ungainly.  Personally, I found a double row still too "big", hence a more manageable three row vairy.
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Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #25 on: Friday 22 October 10 22:56 BST (UK) »
I don't agree.  A fess is usually the same width as a pale or a bend.  A pale is usually just under on third of the width of a shield.  Thus a fess would be quarter of the height of the shield.

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Stephen J F Plowman

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 23 October 10 08:33 BST (UK) »
Brook-Little's 1973 revised edition of Boutell's Heraldry has these dimensions:

Chief, fess & pale - one third (or rather less)*
Bend, saltire & cross - one third if charged, one fifth if uncharged.
Bar & chevron - one fifth.

*The chief & fess will be one third of the height and the pale one third of the width.

These ordinaries can shrink or expand depending on what is being placed on or around them.  It is a combination of best fit and artistic interpretation.

Your avatar and my two renditions are, I believe, all correct in that they match the blazon "Ermine a fess vairy Or and Gules".  The one potential hazard with a single row is that, if the fess is narrowed too much, it might be taken as a bar.

Yours aye

Stephen
Plowman - Dorset
Gollop - Dorset
Taunton - Dorset
Carver - Norfolk
Oyns - all
Tweedy - all
Also British Heraldry (www.heraldry-online.org.uk)