LEE family of Bognor

[janan]

Hi

If Emily/Mary/Emma said John Lee was her father then it does sound as if she was illegitmate, not the actual daughter of William and Emma , so is some kind of confirmation that she is Mary Ann's child.  She may well have said her almost certainly fictitious father John was a carpenter after Jon Bradfield.

Jan

[rogden]

Good day Jan & Michael
Because I've only recently discovered the correct Lee family (I wasted much time tracing the wrong one), I haven't yet followed up Emma Lee the 10 year old niece staying with Jonathan Bradfield and his wife Mary Ann in 1871. I had wondered if she was the illegitimate daughter of Mary Ann but Jan was beginning to convince me that she wasn't. However....?
The Bradfields are my wife's ancestors and we have photos of Jonathan and Mary Ann and of their gravestone. Mary Ann Bradfield (nee Lee b. 1840 at Bognor) died 1912 at Brighton. Jonathan Bradfield b. 1845 Worthing, d. 1924 Brighton was a carpenter. They had seven Bradfield children (none named Emma) and, after 1871, there is no further mention of Emma Lee in any information I have gathered to date. Jonathan Bradfield would have been 15 when Emma Lee was born in 1860 and so is unlikely to be the father. In the 1911 census it's recorded that Mary Ann Bradfield had 7 children of the marriage (5 still alive) which corresponds with the names of the children I had discovered from birth records. Anyway, I would not expect any illegitimate children before the marriage to have been recorded.
Next week we will be visiting the 92 year old grand daughter of Jonathan & Mary Ann Bradfield but I do not hold out much hope she will be able to shed any light on Emma.
This is most intriguing
Roger

[rogden]

One thought & one update.
Thought. Mary  Ann Bradfield (nee Lee) had a brother John born 1835. A John Lee married Mary Elizabeth Bridger Brighton district 1859 Sep, vol 2b, p.304. An Emma Alice Lee was born Brighton district 1860 Jun, vol 2b, p.157. If this is the Emma and is the daughter of John Lee then she would be the neice of Mary Ann Bradfield at the 1871 census. I have no means to check this supposition.
Update. A2A East Sussex Record Office PAR477/32/3/48 - Removal order to Salehurst 4 Jan 1810 - Mary Drawbridge, singlewoman, from Hawkhurst, Kent. This is almost certainly the pregnant mother of Sarah Drawbridge. Unfortunately, I will not be able to get to East Sussex RO for many months to see if there is any useful added detail in the removal order itself.
Roger

[mjgorton]

Hi

I had seen the registration of Emma Alice Lee in Brighton and wondered if it was her, as I simply can't find the birth of an Emma Mary Lee (or Mary Emma Lee) anywhere in 1860. There is also the birth of an Emma Lee registered in Worthing district Dec 1860 2b 267. On the plus side this is the quarter that that baptism in South Bersted took place, but while Worthing is closer to South Bersted than Brighton I'm not aware of any other links to that district, whereas there are with Brighton.

For the record, my ancestor appears as Emma on the 1891 census and on the birth certificate of her son Thomas, as Emma Mary on the birth certificate of her daughter Caroline and as Mary Emma on her marriage certificate and death certificate.

I had seen that removal order of Mary Drawbridge as well. I wonder if that means she came from Hawkhurst originally or from Salehurst. The two are very close to one another. I can't find a baptism for Mary in either place though familysearch IGI has a baptism of either Mary or Maria Drawbridge in Cranbrook (again very close by) on 12 Jul 1782 - daughter of Thomas & Elizabeth. The same site's pedigree resource file has Maria's baptism on 20th May (I suppose it may not be the same person) and has Elizabeth's maiden name as Boorman.

Michael

[janan]

Hi Roger and Michael

I think we may be able to rule out Emma Alice as there is a death in Brighton April qtr 1861 of an Emma Alice Lee

I wonder if the Worthing registered Emma is the one I found in Littlehampton in 1861 she is down as M E but this could be mishearing of Emmy?? She was born in Bognor and has an unmarried mother Mary Ann so could be Emily Mary baptised in South Bersted and thus may be your Emma, Michael    But I somehow feel she isn't.  I can't find trace of her after 1861 which suggests her mum married and she appears under another name.

We are still left with Mary E born Bognor living as daughter to William and Emma in 61 and Emma born Brighton niece of Jonathan and Mary Ann Bradifeld in 1871 - I cannot see a registration for a Bognor born Mary E, Emily M or Emma either.

I am now well and truly confused

Jan

[mjgorton]

Hi again

I'm pretty confused too now Jan. I've got to say that I never noticed that Littlehampton Lee family before - it does seem to fit as well doesn't it? M E Lee could be short for Mary Emma.  The 1861 says she was born in Bognor - which fits with what I have on the 1891 (and could still be the South Bersted baptism from 1860). Actually - the age of 4 months at the 1861 census would take us back to about Nov. 1860... Oh dear...

Oh yeah... There's also the fact that my great grandmother Caroline Lyfield definitely had relatives in Littlehampton.....

However, the Littlehampton register also has a Millie Eliza Lee (mother Mary Ann, no father) baptised in 1862. If she was a year or more at baptism it could be the one on the census (can't find a birth registration to confirm).

Now - Caroline Lyfield did leave a large number of old letters and postcards which may hold some clues to her Littlehampton relatives. I shall have to have a good look through them but I don't have them with me at the moment so will be a while till I get the chance.

Michael

[mjgorton]

Hello

Another update - 1861 census has an Emma Lee born 1860 in Arundel (which would be in the Worthing reg. destrict) - daughter of Michael & Martha. So that could also be the Emma Lee registered in Worthing in Dec 1860.

But - the Littlehampton Lee family definately do seem to have connections in South Bersted as also in 1861 there is a George Lee born c. 1832 in Littlehampton living in South Bersted with wife Elizabeth Ann & daughter Sarah Kate. And Familysearch shows that James & Eliza did have a son George in 1831.

Even more confused now...

Michael

[trish1120]

Bookmarking to look at later, for some reason never got notification of new replies

[janan]

Hi everyone

So where are we?

Emma Alice born c1860 Brighton daughter of John and ? (can't remember her name) may have died in 1861

M E Lee born Bognor c1860 mother unmarried Mary Ann in Littlehampton in 1861 seems likely to be Millie Eliza baptised Littlehampton 1862 mother Mary Ann no father.

Emma Lee registered Worthing 1860 is most likely to be daughter of Michael and Martha

Which leaves us back with South Bersted baptised Emily Mary mother Mary Ann singlewoman, Bognor born Mary E 'daughter ' of William and Emma in 1861 and Brighton born Emma 'niece' to Mary Ann Bradfield in 1871 - are they one and the same? is this Emma/Emma Mary born Bognor who marries Thomas Glass? can we prove this or at least be reasonably certain?

So far I can't see a registration for this/these Emily Mary/Emma/ Emma Mary etc
I can't see the daughter of William and Emma after 1861 and can't see a death for her
If the Brighton (? erroneously) born Emma is the same person as Mary E and the same Emma who marries Thomas Glass has she been found in 1881?

Hmm

Jan (away to look again at censuses and BMD's head a whirl with Emma/Emily/Mary  )