Wrong baptism all along.

[coombs]

Hi

Until today I did think Elizabeth Newman baptised 14 October 1753 at St Dunstan, Stepney, daughter of Anthony and Elizabeth Newman was my ancestor who married Samuel Auber in November 1774 in St Dunstan, Stepney, London.

But then I found in July 1754 an Eliz Newman burial in St Dunstan, daughter of Anthony. Found through the new LMA indexed 1538-1812 London records. That shows to be cautious esp with common names such as Newman.

Now I will have to try and see if I can find the origin of my Elizabeth Newman. When she wed Samuel Auber in 1774 the two witnesses were regular ones. They said they were of the hamlet of Ratcliff although they did have their first child Samuel Jnr in March 1773 in Shoreditch a while before they wed. Samuel Auber was born in 1750 in Shoreditch and died in 1827 and is buried at St Dunstan Stepney but I have not yet found Elizabeth's burial. The surname was sometimes spelt as Obey as fellow Rootschatter Richarde79 and myself have found out.

Ben

[richarde1979]

Hi Ben

What about this for an alternative

Elizabeth Newman     Baptism     10 Apr 1746     St Dunstan and All Saints, Middlesex     John Newman

or is this too early do you think?

Also as promised I have been plugging away trying to find the origins of her father in law Samuel Auber/Obe/Obey. I have been finding all references to the name in my records and grouping and organising them into families.

As you remember, I though it unlikely he was fresh refugee, as he was using the Anglican churches as eary as 1740. We had theorised he would have been baptised around 1720, to a Huguenot family from the early waves, anglicised by the mid 1700's.

I found only one family which is many ways the perfect match, who came over in 1681. Name is spelt variously Obe/Aube/Obee/Obey, and I have kept the spelling of the originals in the quoted records.

Threadneedle Street French Huguenot Church Tesmoignages: "Gabriel Obe and wife Lousie Rozee, and Louis Roze" his brother in law, on testimony of Plenier 11 Dec 1681"

Threadneedle Street French Huguenot Church Charity Records: "Gabriel Obe, Linen Weaver, with wife and 2 children 27 Dec 1681 11 shillings, 9 May 1682 last grant to Jacques Yale, who had cured Obe's son who was burnt, 15 shillings. 4 Grants made in all Total of 1 pound, 18 shillings, 0 pence."


Gabriel and Louise went on to have a futher 9 children in England, (6 daughters, 3 sons). All baptised at Threadneedle Street. Their  son Tobie, is the one of interest to us:

Threadneedle Street French Huguenot Church Baptisms: "Aube, Tobie, son of Gabriel Auber and Louise Rozee sep 20 1696 "

He joined the Threadneedle Street Church aged 18, but married and baptised his children in the Anglican church:

Threadneedle Street French Huguenot Church Tesmoignages: "Aube, Tobie , son of Gabriel, aged 18, Xmas day 1714"

Saint Dunstan,Stepney: 14 Jun 1717 Marriage: "Tobias Obee of Spitalfields, Weaver, and Jane Rigg, of the Same, Spinster."

Saint Dunstan,Stepney   8 Jul 1718  :     "Peter, son of Tobias Obey of Mile End New Town, Weaver, and Jane his wife.. Baptised 15 days old|
Saint Dunstan,Stepney    7 Oct 1718  :    "Peter son of Tobias Obey of Mile End New Town, Weaver, Buried."
Saint Dunstan,Stepney    22 Apr 1722 :   "Sarah, daughter of Tobias Obee of Mile End New Town, Weaver, and Jane.. Baptised 22 days old"
St Mary, Whitechapel     4 Oct 1724  :   "Elizabeth Obee, daughter of Tobias and Jane in Wentworth Street, Baptised."

He was widowed around 1728/9 and remarried at St Dunstan's Twice:

Saint Dunstan,Stepney 7 Jul 1729    Marriage "Tobias Obee of Bethnal Green, Weaver, and Ann Morpas, of Same, Widow."
Saint Dunstan,Stepney 5 Sep 1736  Marriage "Tobias Obee of Bethnal Green, Widow, and Elizabeth Cook of the Same, Widow."

Now he is still involved in the French community at this time, as he appears in the records of La Patente Huguenot Chapel, Spitalfields, on 14 April 1728 , standing as godfather (recorded as Tobie Aube) to his nephew Tobie Fret, son of Jacque Fret and his sister  Louise Aube. (Funnily enough my ancestor, 6xg grandmother Judith Deverdun stood as godmother to one of their next children in same church).

Now why I think this such a good match is his other sister Jeanne Louise, married one of the Moncoutant Contingent of Protestants in 1708 at same chapel, Jacques Pougneau, Tobie was a witness. (Paul has commented on this marriage before on our other thread, and the fact he thought it important). So this links them to your Fradins/Morins etc.

Also, Tobie and his wife last use the church of St Marys Whitechapel, where your Samuel also first turns up using. Their very fluid spelling of their surname exactly matches the pattern found in your Samuels family. Tobie and Jane are one of the only Anglicised Auber couple baptising children in the right place at right time to be Samuels parents. There is a gap between 1718-1722 which would exactly fit for his theorised birth in 1720. But perhaps of most significance I have proof positive there is indeed one more child to them, missing from their baptisms. As shown above their son Peter died, so they should have only two children in 1727/8. But on the accounts for the Royal Bounty distributed to the French Huguenot refugees and their decendants that year, Tobie's wife appears


Jeanne/Jane Aube, wife of Tobie and her three children, in Browns Lane Quarter Spitalfields, recieved 12 Shillings (1727-8.)

A shiver ran down my spine when I found that! Of course can't prove the missing child is Samuel 100%...but what do you think Ben, good case for it now at least?

[coombs]

Hi Richard

I think that Elizabeth Newman died as a baby as an Elizabeth Newman infant died in 1746 buried at that very church daughter of John.

Wow, as for the Auber connections, it does seem good. The fluid way of spelling the names is good. So that does mean that there was another child of Tobias Obee we need to find.

The best thing to do is to try and see if Tobias left any wills and to see if Elizabeth and Sarah lived and got married and if they left any wills.

Ben

Ben

[richarde1979]

They certainly had one more child Ben yes. Given his wife died in 1727, their marriage in 1717, and the other childrens baptism/birth dates, it can only realistically have been born in 1720, or later between 1725-7. The fact we have an Aube couple in the right place, right time, with a child, whose baptism is missing, though doesn't prove they were Samuels parents no, certainly makes them stand out candidates to be at very least.

[coombs]

Hi Richard

What church has the missing years 1718-1722 St Dunstan or Whitechapel church?

Ben

[richarde1979]

As far as I know both church registers are complete Ben? But not 100% on that. I have not looked through the registers of both page for page searching for their missing son/Samuel. It seems likely he would have been baptised at one or the other. The search facility on Ancestry is not throwing up anything helpful

[richarde1979]

Found the wife's burial

"Jane Obay, of Bethnal Green 5 Apr 1727"

Also his father

"Gabriel Obee, Weaver, of Bethnal Green High Street,  7 Feb 1713/14 "

Both at St Dunstan's.

That further narrows down the possible/probable date for the birth of the missing child, as roughly May 1719- Apr 1721 or July 1725-Apr 1727

[coombs]

Hi Richard

I think I might have to manually search St Dunstan or St Mary Whitechapel page by page to see if that throws any light on it.

Ben

[richarde1979]

Hi Ben

It probably may be the only way to rule out it being their smudged/obscured/mistranscribed etc. Alternatively this child may have been baptised elsewhere..but lets hope not for now and think positive. It seems we are at last making some progress here.