The April 2005 Rootschat Challenge

[Arranroots]

The 1901 census has 2 Thomas DOMAILLE:

                  *   one aged 19 an ag lab in Vale, Guernsey

                  *   one aged 22 a market gardener in St Martin, Jersey, but born England

[BlandTree]

I really ought to have jumped in sooner to save kind researchers from looking for Abraham's dad.  I shall now fill in his ancestry as far as I know it.  Sadly I knew of his dad and granddad back in 1989 and have made NO progress since then.  Pathetic?  I am sure that Sue is correct in saying that she has found Lionel Gilpin in Pengarth.  However, I have had absolutely no luck tracing Cecil Edmonson in England in the 1901 census!  He ought to be there.

Anyway, here is Abraham's ancestry:
His grandfather was William BLAND, a millwright who married Elizabeth SUGDEN in Otley Parish Church in 1816.  This is as far back as I can get.  They were married by Banns with parents’ consent, which suggests that one or both were younger than 21.  I searched through the parish register for births 1796 - 1804 but could not find the bride or groom.  I then searched for marriges and found only John BLAND married Ann SUTTEL and John SUGDEN, Millwright, married Hannah BLACKBERRY in 1792.  Are these Elizabeth SUGDEN’s parents?  I need to find Elizabeth’s birth certificate.

 William and Elizabeth had two children, John born in 1817 and William born in 1819.  Both were born in Esholt and christened in Guiseley [the parish church for Esholt].  Soon after their birth dad sailed to Trinidad to seek his fortune. He reported that he had 30 “blacks” working for him.  He said they worked well if kindly treated.  Eventually William (junior) became a very ill.  William [Jun.] died [Starvation?], about six years after William BLAND had sailed to Trinidad. A letter indicating how wealthy he was and that he was coming home was received. His secretary, John CLARKE, was helping him to settle up his business in Trinidad. The next news was that William had died of Yellow Fever and John CLARKE had decamped with all the valuables. If only I could find the death certificate of William Bland, who died of Yellow Fever in about 1825-1835 in Trinidad, I would expect to find the names of his parents on it.  But, to be honest, I really don’t know how to go about this!  The Red House, where all the records of births, marriages & deaths for Trinidad was burned to the ground in the middle 1900s and all records destroyed.  Any ideas?

With his only brother dead, John BLAND [Abraham’s dad], started work aged 8 on the land.  In 1947 he married Eliza CARPENTER in Hereford, but he was already living in Sale by that time [marr. cert.].  Apparently they had no children and Eliza died of consumption [?].  He then married the much younger Eliza BOARDMAN in Hunslet, though he still lived in Sale.  Ages on the marriage certificate give John to be a bachelor aged 46 [he was actually a widower aged 51] and Eliza aged 32 so possibly born circa 1836. 

After this I can only find John in censuses and trade directories.  I don’t see him in Kelly’s Directory of 1864.  Morris & Co’s Directory of 1874 gives John Bland, Gardener, 117 Washway Road.  P.O. Directory of 1878 gives him as a Jobbing Gardener.  Slater’s Directory of Altrincham, 1902, shows him as Landscape Gardener!  A grand title and by then he is 85 years old!

Paul E kindly suggested that I might ask some specific questions for this last week of the challenge, so here goes!
1.  I need to find the death certificate of William BLAND, Millwright, who died in Trinidad circa 1825 - 1840, to get his father’s name and his likely date of birth.  The buildings housing these records has burnt down!  Any ideas?
2.  I need to find Elizabeth SUGDEN’s birth and/or death certificate.  I am told that she died choking on a cherry stone aged 70.
3.  It would be good to locate John BLAND and his mother Elizabeth in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses.  They should be in Sale by 1851.
4.  It would be good to find the death certificate of John’s younger brother William who died circa 1819 - 1830.
5.  I would like to know more about [Abraham] Lionel Gilpin BLAND between 1908 and 1916, when he enlisted.  He never uses his first name in Canada.
6. Pte L G BLAND was killed on Hill 70 on 21st/22nd August 1917 fighting for the 28th Battalion [195th Unit] Canadian Expeditionary Forces.  I am desperate to discover whether he was in A, B, C or D Company as I have the Captains’ handwritten reports of that night’s action but don’t know which Company he was with.  I have a fairly full service record for him.
7.  I now know that Lionel and Frank emigrated to Canada in 1904.  They probably left from Liverpool.  Does anyone know where I can find the passenger lists to search for these two men?

Thanks for wading through all this and for all your help so far!

Malcolm Bland

[Arranroots]

I can do you a Cecil W EDMONDSON in 1901 ??

He is aged 16, living with his parents and siblings in Barnoldswick, Yorkshire which is also where he was born.  He is a cotton twister by trade.

Intriguingly (or not) the neighbours are called DEMAIN.   Sadly no Thomas to complete the picture!

Ref: RG13/ 4028 7 105 10

Sorry I don't have the resources to answer the more significant questions above!  Good luck anyway.

Kind regards, Arranroots 

[M.T.H]

1.  I need to find the death certificate of William BLAND, Millwright, who died in Trinidad circa 1825 - 1840, to get his father’s name and his likely date of birth.  The buildings housing these records has burnt down!  Any ideas?

Hi Malcolm,

What an interesting story this is turning out to be!!

Not sure if this will be any help to you,I found it here,

http://www.rootsweb.com/~ttowgw/research/research_trip.htm

Registration Office, South Quay, Port of Spain (Tel: 623-7163; 8.30am - 3.15pm)

Contrary to what most people may think, records of births, marriages and deaths are NOT kept at Red House anymore but have been relocated to the Registration Office at South Quay near Courts furniture shop. Do not expect to find any indexes here. The officious gentleman sitting at the desk on entry simply couldn't understand what I was talking about when I asked about search facilities for BMDs ! After a security check you enter a large crowded hall where you must fill out a small colour-coded form in order to apply for a certificate (Birth-white; Marriage-green; Death-red). After payment the certificate is issued on the SAME day in the FOLLOWING week i.e. you can't just search an index first. The search is performed 'behind the scenes'. There must be a postal option because I ordered a number of certificates from England using International Money Orders (very expensive!). However be warned. Mine took 6 months each to receive. Do not expect a 'rapid response' attitude here.

A glimmer of hope perhaps?

Best wishes,Mick

[BlandTree]

Well, Well, Well!

Thanks for the Edmondson, ArranRoots.  He could be our man but seems a little young.  In 1906 he has a smallholding in Pengarth and is aged 23, not 21.  On the other hand, census ages are often wrong!  Still, this would mean that he emigrated aged 18, in 1903, and got a smallholding and two servant within three years.  Possible.

Thanks for your "glimmer of hope", Mick.  Worth pursuing and I shall do so.

Another question.
One family legend states that John and Eliza BLAND had eight children, not seven.  The eighth was a boy called Alexander, who died in infancy.  John 1869, William, 1871, Frank 1873, Abraham L G 1874, Arthur 1876, E Amy H 1877 and E Agnes 1881, do not leave much room for an eighth!  I have looked but cannot find him.  He may not have existed but most rumours do tend to have an element of truth about them.  Any ideas?  I have not looked to see if he was a child of the first marriage, but the source that gave me Alexander also said that the first marriage was childless.

I have looked, but not yet found the death of the first wife, born Elizabeth Carpenter and married in 1847.

Malcolm

[BlandTree]

Cecil W EDMONDSON in 1901
He is aged 16, living with his parents and siblings in Barnoldswick

Here's another coincidence.  Another of my time-consuming hobbies is church bellringing.  Once a month I go to help out teaching people to ring in ... Barnoldswick Parish Church!

Malcolm

[Paul E]

Another question.
One family legend states that John and Eliza BLAND had eight children, not seven.  The eighth was a boy called Alexander, who died in infancy.  John 1869, William, 1871, Frank 1873, Abraham L G 1874, Arthur 1876, E Amy H 1877 and E Agnes 1881, do not leave much room for an eighth!  I have looked but cannot find him.  He may not have existed but most rumours do tend to have an element of truth about them.  Any ideas? 

A search on freebmd only finds an Alexander Dick Bland, born Lanchester (Durham) in 1884 and died aged 4 in Tynemouth in 1889 - a bit improbable, but then as we know its not a full index.

[Paul E]

When I started this thread I had no links in my tree to Leeds.

Just today, I've found a branch living there from 1881 - 1901 ... and thanks to the pointer to the Leodis site, I've been able to get a picture of the house they were living in in 1891... 

Now, if I hadn't started this thread, I'd probablynever have come across that site.  So, thank you Nessie and KathyM for the Leodis tip!

Paul

[BlandTree]

Another question.
One family legend states that John and Eliza BLAND had eight children, not seven.  The eighth was a boy called Alexander, who died in infancy.  John 1869, William, 1871, Frank 1873, Abraham L G 1874, Arthur 1876, E Amy H 1877 and E Agnes 1881, do not leave much room for an eighth!  I have looked but cannot find him.  He may not have existed but most rumours do tend to have an element of truth about them.  Any ideas? 

A search on freebmd only finds an Alexander Dick Bland, born Lanchester (Durham) in 1884 and died aged 4 in Tynemouth in 1889 - a bit improbable, but then as we know its not a full index.

I know that census and certificate dates can be badly wrong but I have just realised that Eliza BLAND, nee BOARDMAN, was 45 when she had Agnes in 1881!  My mother was 41 when I was born and my wife's mother was 44 when my wife was born and I would gues that 45 would, in 1881, be very much at the end of safe child-bearing age.  The biggest gap in her birthing pattern seems to be from Amy [1877] and Agnes [1881] so that would seem to be the best bet.  She never left Sale until she died, in 1913 I think, and so I think that Lanchester and the date make Alexander Dick seem to be very unlikely.

What a happy coincidence you were given the Leodis link, Paul.  I was born in Kent but grew up in Hereford, where John first married, and I am certain that my father never knew of his grandfather's connection with the town.  I moved up to Ilkley in 1974 but had no idea that my gt-gt-grandfather had had been born only about 8 miles away! 

Someone has quoted the Bland motto, "Sperate et Virite Fortes" - Hope and Live Boldly.  There were about half a dozen Bland mottoes, for different branches of the family, and another was, "Quo Fata Vocant" - Whither the Fates Call [us].  My book, when I get round to writing it, will be titled, "Called by Fate".  There have been so many incredible coincidences in our family stories, and so much luck; good and bad!

Malcolm