Born 1736 but married in 1734?

[greenvalley]

I have been trying to find a link between the Elder family from Glenbeich and the Elders from Bents. First I found a testament dative, in which Thomas Elder in Bents left the sum of £50 to his son Thomas Elder in Glenbeich, so far so good. Some of the text reads: “£50 Sterling bequeathed to the said defunct Thomas Elder in Benbeich or Glenbeich by Thomas Elder of Bents by his deposition dated 29th October and registered in the Commissary Court Books of Glasgow 14th Dec both in the year 1785 which became due and payable year and day after the granters death which happened sometime in November and year foresaid.” What I understand from this is that Thomas Elder of Bents died sometime in 1785, his son Thomas of Glenbeich died in 1808, which is when the testament dative was drawn up.

I then found a snippet on the Scottish National Archives (CS229/E/1/29) which makes another mention of a Thomas Elder in Bents. In the extract Jean and Janet Elder are in a legal battle with Fairier and Elder and others. I have copied the extract here below:

1. Extract registered contract of marriage between Thomas Elder in Crofthill, son of the deceased Thomas Elder in Crofthill and Anna Manuel daughter of Robert Manuel of Bents with consent of her said father, dated 3 Jan 1734 and registered in the Sheriff Court Books of Edinburgh 4 Jul 1767.
2. Retour of the general service of Jean Elder, wife of James Purdie, mason at Butterhall, daughter of the deceased Thomas Elder in Bents, procreate betwixt him and the said Anna Manuel, as heir of provision under said contract of marriage to the said Robert Manuel, her grandfather, dated 19 Sep 1767. 
3. Extract retour of the general service of Janet Elder, wife of William Carmichael in Yardhouses, daughter of the deceased Thomas Elder in Bents, and Anna Manuel, his spouse, as heir of provision under said contract of marriage to the said Robert Manuel, her grandfather, dated 14 Jul 1769.

From the information under one I understood that Thomas Elder married Anna Manuel, and he did in 1732 according to the Parish Register. Thomas also took a sasine in Bents in 1755, so I reasoned that he moved from Crofthill, where his father Thomas Elder lived, to Bents, the place of his father in law, Robert Manuel.
Info under two tells me that Jean Elder is the daughter of Thomas and Anna, and this again is correct, she was born in 1736. But the marriage between Jean Elder and James Purdie was in 1734? 
I can’t find the marriage for Janet to William Carmichael, but Thomas and Anna had a daughter Janet, born in 1740.

Am I reading all this wrong? Can anyone explain to me who Jean’s father is?

Greenvalley

[Just Kia]

From the info in the above post the marriage in 1734 is Thomas Elder and Anna Manuel, which would fit appropriately with a 1736 birth for Jean Elder.
What evidence is there for a 1734 marriage of Jean Elder and James Purdie? Could it be a poorly written 1754?

[greenvalley]

Hi JustKia

no, there is no mistake for the marriage of Jean Elder and James Purdie, there's a whole list of marriages, well people paying for the banns in Carnwath for that year. I got it from Scotlandspeople and it is unequivocal. That's why I am so confused.

Also Thomas Elder and Anna were married in 1732 not 34, that too is on Scotlandspeople.

Greenvalley

[Archivos]

Nope, thought I had it but I had confused myself.

[Just Kia]

Either there is a mistake somewhere or there are 2 sets of "Jean Elder and James Purdie".
Maybe Thomas Elder had a sister called Jean Elder and she married James Purdie (who may or may not be an ancestor of/related to James Purdie who married Jean Elder the daughter of Thomas Elder).

[Archivos]

Yes, that is what I was half thinking (after I'd realised I was barking up the wrong tree with the possibility of an earlier Jean being born, dying, and the name being reused - the dates and events just didn't support that!).  I just couldn't get round to working out how to say that there could be two different sets of people!  It is Monday, after all.  That's my excuse.

[greenvalley]

Thanks JustKia and Archivos

I can't understand it either (this is going to be such a long week  )

I have been looking up the phrase "heir of provision" that is used for the 2 women: heir of provision is one who succeeds by virtue of the terms of a settlement or some express provision - so that will relate to the will of Robert Manuel.

They have to be the daughters of Thomas and Anna, so perhaps there is another Elder - Purdie marriage somewhere, but it is one I am unable to find.

If anyone reading this can still follow the "logic"  please feel free to add your opnion.

Greenvalley

[anpefa1]

this may confuse the issue further but i vaguely recall a question about someone buried in westminster abbey before he died (i think) and it had something to do with the adoption of the gregorian calendar from the julian calendar in the 1700's whereby dates were put back for some reason!!!! ?. tony.

[RJ_Paton]

this may confuse the issue further but i vaguely recall a question about someone buried in westminster abbey before he died (i think) and it had something to do with the adoption of the gregorian calendar from the julian calendar in the 1700's whereby dates were put back for some reason!!!! ?. tony.

It wouldn't really apply as Scotland adopted the Gregorian Calendar in 1600 long before England moved over.

However on checking the IGI it shows that between 1715 and 1734 there were 3 ladies named Jean Elder married in Carnwath (or at least had Banns published) to 3 different individuals indicating that there were several Elder families in the village.