Author Topic: Look up please...  (Read 6268 times)

Offline Cheryl.

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Re: Look up please...
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 20 November 10 18:27 GMT (UK) »
Was thinking that myself. I'll delve further into James Symmond/Simmon's early life in England and try to find some info on his parents and where they're from. Thanks for your help  ;D

I've got further with this tree in the past week since I started it than I have with my other tree I've been focussing on for over two years!

Online CaroleW

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Re: Look up please...
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 20 November 10 19:02 GMT (UK) »
Using the 1861 details I posted back on page 1 - I found him as a lodger in Staffs in 1851.

Holyhead Rd Wednesbury

James Fellows 37 puddler b West Bromwich
Hannah 33 b Willenhall
Jonah    14 b Darlaston
Sarah  6 b Darlaston
James Simmons 24 lodger b Erdington Warwickshire occ puddler
HO107 Piece 2027 Folio 404 Page 6

However - using father John from the marriage entry I posted on page 1- I can't match him in 1841

Quote
There is this 1861 entry for Staffordshire but he is younger than you mention - children all b Wednesbury Staffs

James Simmons 32 iron puddler b Erdington Warwickshire
Susannah  30 b Darlaston Staffs
Susannah 6
John  4
James 2
RG9 Piece 2045 Folio 18 Page 32

Quote
The marriage above is on the IGI Pilot website and shows it as 27.10.1851 at St Lawrence in Darlaston Staffs  and  their fathers were John Simmons and Thomas Kelley

 
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline sancti

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Re: Look up please...
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 20 November 10 19:34 GMT (UK) »
1841 has this record with no father present

Sarah Simmons 57
James Simmons 17  born: Warwickshire, England occ Nail cutter
Cllen Simmons 15
Mary Simmons 25
Wm Simmons 5
Thomas Simmons 3
Hanah Wood 86
Caroline Grisby 15
Fred Stevens 25
 
 
Birmingham
 St Peter

Offline Cheryl.

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Re: Look up please...
« Reply #21 on: Monday 22 November 10 16:31 GMT (UK) »
1841 has this record with no father present

Sarah Simmons 57
James Simmons 17  born: Warwickshire, England occ Nail cutter
Cllen Simmons 15
Mary Simmons 25
Wm Simmons 5
Thomas Simmons 3
Hanah Wood 86
Caroline Grisby 15
Fred Stevens 25
 
 
Birmingham
 St Peter


Using the 1861 details I posted back on page 1 - I found him as a lodger in Staffs in 1851.

Holyhead Rd Wednesbury

James Fellows 37 puddler b West Bromwich
Hannah 33 b Willenhall
Jonah    14 b Darlaston
Sarah  6 b Darlaston
James Simmons 24 lodger b Erdington Warwickshire occ puddler
HO107 Piece 2027 Folio 404 Page 6

However - using father John from the marriage entry I posted on page 1- I can't match him in 1841

Quote
There is this 1861 entry for Staffordshire but he is younger than you mention - children all b Wednesbury Staffs

James Simmons 32 iron puddler b Erdington Warwickshire
Susannah  30 b Darlaston Staffs
Susannah 6
John  4
James 2
RG9 Piece 2045 Folio 18 Page 32

Quote
The marriage above is on the IGI Pilot website and shows it as 27.10.1851 at St Lawrence in Darlaston Staffs  and  their fathers were John Simmons and Thomas Kelley

 

On James's death certificate his father, John is listed as a soldier so he was possibly away on duty or maybe even dead by that 1841/51. Thanks both of you for your help! ;D
I Don't think I'm going to be able to get further back. Am I right in saying that pretty much all records only date back to around 1840's? I always thought that part of the family were recent immigrants to Britain but it seems not.

Where would John (b 1855) be most likely buried? He died in Motherwell 1928. I've had a look around Airbles but that's pretty much a needle in a haystack case. Would he maybe be in St Patrick's in Newstevenston as it opened in 1926?


Offline sancti

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Re: Look up please...
« Reply #22 on: Monday 22 November 10 16:55 GMT (UK) »
Cheryl contact North Lanarkshire Council who will provide place of burial and lair information.

Offline Cheryl.

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Re: Look up please...
« Reply #23 on: Friday 03 June 11 18:45 BST (UK) »
Have finished my exams so am back to family tree stuff but I'm really confused! For once there is too much information to digest, rather than too little! A rarity for me.

I have James Simmons with no birth record, born around 1830 +/- 5 years.

Have found an 1841 census record from Worcestershire in England which says he was born there and not Warwickshire so record may not be him



Too many for 1851 to narrow it down but this could be him:
James Fellows   37
Hannah Fellows   33
Jonah Fellows   14
Sarah Fellows   6
James Simmons   24 b (Erdington, Warwickshire, England)



Have the 1861 census, posted previously by a member saying he was born in Warwickshire:
James Simmons   32 b Erdington, Warwickshire, England
Susannah Simmons   30
Susannah Simmons   6
John Simmons   4
James Simmons   2


Have 1871 census, previously posted saying he lives in Cadder, Lanarkshire:
James Simmons   41 b England
Susannah Simmons   38
Susannah Simmons   15
John Simmons   13
James Simmons   11
Samuel Simmons   9
Sarah Simmons   7
Israel Simmons   2

Have 1881 census, living in Old Monkland
James Simmons   46 b England
Susan Simmons   44
Susan Simmons Digney   24
John Digney   2
Sarah Digney   2 MO
Samuel Simmons   19
Sarah Simmons   17
Israel Simmons   15



Only found 1 census return for 1891 but it's back to England and different kids so unlikely to be him

Have 1901 census, living in Old Monkland Poor house (however, this says he was born in Coatbridge in Lanarkshire!!!)

Have his death in 1905 in Old Monkland Poor house aged 70.

I'm confused because there are so many birth places so I don't know which records are him but the wife and kids are correct on pretty much all of them!

Looking back over what I've just posted, pretty sure the census records are all him but there are gaps in census' I can't find him and am confused as to why his death and Old Monkland poorhouse census return/death says birth Coatbridge.


Offline sancti

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Re: Look up please...
« Reply #24 on: Friday 03 June 11 21:33 BST (UK) »
1891

James Simons 55 born England Occupation: Iron Worker - Puddler
Susanna Simons 52 wife born: England
Samuel Simons 27 born England Occupation: Iron Worker - Puddler

Address: 29 Jackson St Old Monkland

Offline Lodger

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Re: Look up please...
« Reply #25 on: Friday 03 June 11 22:10 BST (UK) »
Cheryl,

The Victorian parochial system in Scotland turned honest but poverty-stricken folk into liars. It was the only way to stay alive.
In order to qualify for poor relief of any sort, the parish demanded that the pauper was either born in that parish or, that he/she had spent the previous seven consecutive years living in that parish. (A wife or child would qualify on the husband/father's birth or residence).
So, perhaps your ancestor was forced to lie, as the alternative would have been having to wait many weeks, or even months, until the parish he made the claim in sorted out with the parish of his birth, who was liable for his (and perhaps his large family's) upkeep. All during that time he would have had to starve. "Liability Admitted" or "Liability Refused" are common expressions on poor relief claim forms. They were awful times and people really had to live by their wits.

Here is a burial entry from the registers of Cambusnethan cemetery, it looks like she's "one of yours".

SUSAN DIGNAN, housewife, Wishaw, aged 59 years, married.
Parents - James Simmons and Susan Kelly.
Interred in public ground 5th March 1914.  (a pauper's burial)

In the 1911 Wishaw directory there is only one Degnan - (It is a list of householders only, not a census).
Michael Degnan, ironworker, 14 English Street, Craigneuk.
Also -
William Deighnan, undertaker, 68 Shieldmuir Street, Craigneuk.
Also, there are 2 John Simmons (marked jnr and snr so must be father and son) at 5 cowie's Square and 9 Cowie's Square, Craigneuk. There is also a Philip Simons at 68 English Buildings, Craigneuk.

Hope this helps,

Lodger
Paterson, Torrance, Gilchrist - Hamilton Lanarkshire. 
McCallum - Oban, McKechnie - Ross of Mull Argyll.
Scrim - Perthshire. 
Liddell - Polmont,
Binnie - Muiravonside Stirlingshire.
Curran, McCafferty, Stevenson, McCue - Co Donegal
Gibbons, Weldon - Co Mayo.
Devlin - Co Tyrone.
Leonard - County Donegal & Glasgow.

Offline Cheryl.

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Re: Look up please...
« Reply #26 on: Friday 03 June 11 23:43 BST (UK) »
1891

James Simons 55 born England Occupation: Iron Worker - Puddler
Susanna Simons 52 wife born: England
Samuel Simons 27 born England Occupation: Iron Worker - Puddler

Address: 29 Jackson St Old Monkland

Ah, thank you! I'm not sure why this record wasn't returned in any of my searches!