charles edward dove

[Stooby]

Hi jesscat,
Thank you for all your information. This is fascinating and I feel the urge to really have a go at finding out more about my family and roots. My aunt produced a family tree for my mother's side, but never my father's. Maybe I now know why. She achieved that before the internet was available using researchers and record offices. As that side all came from Glasgow and Ayrshire and my grandmother from the Isle of Arran, it wasn't easy then. I'd love to have the same thing on my father's side.
The only photo I've seen of Charles was taken with two other men outside Harborough Road Hospital, where he was being treated for his chest. He too was tall and dark haired and looked very smart. I just hope it turns up.
The Duston connection is interesting. My mother told me that "Grandma Dove" was the layer-out for Duston and that they were a Duston family, although I'm pretty sure she said that Charles had lived at Moulton before meeting Ada. I lived in Duston from '58 to '70 and sat next to a Hazel Dove at junior school there. Wouldn't that be a turn up if we were related. It seems very possible.
By way of coincidence, I also worked on a house in Lorne Road for a few weeks in about '82 for a friend who let it to an old couple, whose name eludes me. I think it was around No. 14/15, so I might have spoken to people there who were related. The plot thickens.
I'd love to see a photo of Alfred, the reason being that there are people in my parents' wedding photos who I can't identify. I just wonder if he might have been there?
I've always deeply regretted that I only knew one of my grandparents, but now I feel a little closer. I think I must start working on this and find out more.
Do you live in the Northampton area?
I'm away in Wales for Christmas week, so you will not get a reply to anything then, but I'm home until Saturday.

All the best,
Stuart

[carol8353]

Now you both have posted more than 3 times,you can contact each other via the Personal Message system. Click on the little scroll under the the persons name and away you go.

Personal messages show up on the top right of the page under " My Messages" .

Regards

Carol

[Stebie9173]

I can help a little on Charles Dove's army career if you would like and haven't done so already. Just let me know.


Steve.

[jesscat]

Hi stuart

I hope you had a good Christmas. We we went to Cornwall for Christmas & new year. 

  I was born in 1952 and live in Warwickshire about 40 miles from Northampton.My brother also lives in Warks .He has a daughter & 2 sons.All of them take after the Dove side of the family,in height. I still keep in touch with Pete as he still lives in Northampton .His mum & dad lived in Far Cotton until their deaths in the 1980's. Wendy also still lives in Northampton.     
   I've been doing a bit more family research. I remember 3 great aunts Flo Win & Nel ( Helen ) they were all sisters to Eleanor.Nellie & Walter lived in Coventry I was told they ran a pub Walter died in 1958.Nell then moved back to Northampton.My mum took me with her when she helped aunt Nell pack. Either Win or Flo had a shop in Northampton somewhere poss a grocers.     
  Aunt Rene worked for Civils grocers for a long time one shop being on the Kettering rd.She was a girl guide leader. Her brother Reg had a lot to do with both the boys brigade and the local dog club.

  I have been wondering if my mum or her family knew any of your dads family . So today I found her old 21st birthday cards out. There's one from a lady named Edie. I've had the cards since she died. There are photo's of mum with people I don' know.   

    In the censuses for 1871 &1881 is a Sarah Dove in Moulton.
     
  Best wishes
                    Linda

[Stooby]

Hi Linda,
We spent christmas in a cow barn converted to a cottage on the coast above Cardigan Bay. It rained and blew like fury for six days out of seven, but hey, we escaped all the christmas nonsense and had a proper chill-out. Sorry I haven't replied to your PM to date. My (nearly) father in law has been unwell and in hospital and it's been a bit frantic since we got back home.
   I would guess that your Mum's card from Edie was from my auntie. I'm not sure, but I think she was one of the Dove part of the family, which would add up. How I wish my lovely old Dad was here to ask about all this. He would have been thrilled. My parents' ashes sit by the side of my desk and I've told them about it all, but no reply yet! Edie lived in Rushden and her daughter Dorothy is still in touch with me. She's lovely, too. All the Doves I've known are, even if they're called West. I owe her a call, so I'll tell her of our connection and see if she can fill in some of the missing information for us. Violet's daughter Phyllis is still alive as far as I know, living in Colne, Lancashire, but I think Violet was one of the Wests. That's just made me wonder if she knows that Mum has died. I have a number, so I'll ring her and again see what she can tell me. It's a very convoluted family. Looking through Mum's massive phone book I've just come across a Diane Dove nearby at Holcot. I've never heard of her before, so she may not be related, but it's worth a call, I guess. My problem is always finding time to sit down without other pressures and do these things. I'll pass on anything I find out. The chronology of the West (Dove) children and which section of the family they belong to would be a good starting point, methinks. I believe the oldest, Maud, was born about 1887 and Dad, the last, was 1915, so there's a 28 year spread there. I know Maud (then Beehan) had two sons, but I have no contact information. Likewise Ivy (then Lilford) had a son, Don, who I'm told still lives in Northampton, but again no contact information. I only re-met my cousin Dorothy about three years ago, having last seen her at her wedding in 1960/61.
   I'd better sign off now, as I'm full of cold and need my beauty sleep desperately. Never seems to make any improvement, though! Take care, and I'll come back with anything I find out.

All the best,
Stuart
 

[Stooby]

I can help a little on Charles Dove's army career if you would like and haven't done so already. Just let me know.


Steve.

Hi Steve,
Many thanks for your offer. It would be wonderful to know a little more about my grandfather. He's a close relative and I can't believe that I know so little about him, so anything you can add would be great. I'm a total amateur at all this, but I feel myself being sucked in to a lot of research. The other side of my family was all done the hard way by my aunt before the internet joined us all together, but my father's side is a muddy blur. I feel that needs to be corrected.

All the best,
Stuart

[jesscat]

Hi Steve 


 I would like to learn a bit more about Charles's army life.

[Stebie9173]

I had better have a look then! (I missed this when Stooby replied!)


Back soon....


Steve.

[Stebie9173]

I believe he was No. 20114 Charles Dove of the 2nd Northamptonshire Regiment who was posted to France on 15th December 1915. Both the man's Medal Index Card (MIC) and the 1918 Absent Voters List (AVL) show him as of "47 West Street, Northampton".

Charles Dove's claimed a Silver War Badge (Badge No. 135125 issued on 5 March 1919) after being discharged and the roll (ledger) for this badge shows that he enlisted on 5th July 1915 and was discharged on 4th December 1918, being no "longer physically fit for Army service".

After his enlistment in July 1915 he would have trained in the UK for the usual 4 or 5 months, either at Gillingham with the 3rd Reserve Battalion or at Colchester with the 8th Reserve Battalion. As noted above his MIC shows that he went to France on 15th December 1915. His medal roll ledger confirms that he was posted to the 2nd Battalion of the Northamptonshire Regiment.

Charles Dove served through the Somme with the 2nd Battalion and was probably involved in their attack on Contalmaison on the Somme on 7th July 1916.

Though the Somme battles came to an effective end in November 1916 some attacks were still made in early 1917. One of these attacks was against German positions on the Moislains Ridge at a village called Bouchavesnes that the 2nd Battalion took part of on 4th March 1917. A good number of 2nd Battalion men were killed and wounded in that battle. Most of the wounded appeared on a casualty list in the Times on 2nd April 1917 - 20114 Charles Dove was reported as wounded as a Private in that list in the Times, which almost certainly means he was wounded during those attacks. What the lists don't state is the type and severity of the wounds - a man could be evacuated home and laid up for months recovering or remained "at duty" and had his minor wounds patched up and continued on.

It is therefore uncertain as to whether he was present at the 2nd Battalion's next major battle during Third Ypres on 31st July 1917 and/or a further attack on 16th August 1917. However, he had certainly returned to the 2nd Battalion by the spring of 1918. Like many of the battalions on the Western Front they were caught up in the German Offensives on March and April 1918 - the 2nd Northamptons were involved in the battles around Amiens and at Villers Bretonneux in April 1918 when they fought alongside the more lauded Australians at VB.

After these battles, the 8th Division of which the 2nd Northamptons were part was withdrawn to a quiet area in May 1918. Though the battalion was seriously under strength it still manned the Front line at Berry-au-Bac near the Chemin des Dames at the Aisne valley. Unfortunately, the quiet area of the line had been chosen for the Germans next major offensive and on 27th May 1918 the Germans swept into the weakly held lines and surrounded the 2nd Northamptons. It was reported that two men of the battalion escaped, the rest mainly being taken prisoners of war. Again, a whole list of "Missing" Northamptonshire Regiment was published, this time in the Official Casualty Lists on 12th July 1918 (the major newspapers had stopped reporting wounded or missing men in 1917). 20114 Private C. Dove appears on this list of the missing.


The Northampton Mercury of 3rd July 1918 reported:

"MISSING. Pte. Charles Dove, Northants Regt. Eldest son of Mr Thomas Dove, Moat Street, Northampton. Missing since May 27th. Been in France nearly three years and wounded once. Formerly worked for Messrs. Padmore and Barnes, St James."

(My ref:Image P1220512. 8-7-2010)


The above suggests that whatever time he spent away from France (if any) due to his earlier wounding was not significant. It also very strongly implies that he spent the rest of the war as a POW in Germany.


Padmore and Barnes actually produced a fantastic looking "Roll of Honour" (complete with "red indian" motifs) of men who served (names only, no details) . Whilst I have seen a copy, I do not have a picture of one and cannot confirm whether Charles Dove is mentioned, though I assume he would be. It looks like there is a copy in the Northampton Records Office.



Steve.