Robert Williams Born 1878 Bradley

[Obwan]

Yes.   There is no (Deceased) on the marriage certificate.  When Robert's daughter Alice married in 1926 the entry for bride's father read "Robert Williams (deceased)"  So I assume John was living in 1905 at the time of his son's marriage.

[wrjones]

Thats torn through all my theories if John was still alive.I was even going to suggest a Surname for Alice.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[Obwan]

I am going to order a birth certificate for Robert Williams born 1878, parent's John Williams and Alice unknown.  Will interesting to know what name you picked and if it will match what I get back.

[wrjones]

I'm not normally a betting man but I would put money on it being Alice Wynne born in Rhuddlan Denbighshire/Flintshire in c 1844.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[Obwan]

Sorry,  I can't let this go.  What is the clue to John Williams being deceased? 

I'm in NZ and it's 11am (ish) where are you?   

[wrjones]

I'm in Wrexham North Wales,its 10.15 at night here.Its just that the family I've been tracking Alice is a Widow in 1901.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[Obwan]

Thank you, appreciate your help.   I will update you when the certificate arrives - hope they include maiden names on Welsh birth records.     

[wrjones]

Its no problem at all,when you get the Cert and its correct I'll give you John Williams' two marriages,to Alice in 1876.I'll also give you Alice's Census entry in 1851.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[Obwan]

I think I hit the Jackpot.  Robert and Sarah Ann's 1st child was given an unusual name.  She probably hated it but a goldmine for me.  Her name was Albertress Gertrude Jones - there is only one.  I found her birth in Ikeston Derbyshire, so I searched the 1891 census records for the area and found "a pretty spot on" family made up of John Williams - occupation "Miner" wife Alice (Alice Ann is the 2nd child to Robert and Sarah).  The piece de resistance - John's parents are living with them.  Edward and Mary Ann Williams.  Robert is a scholar in 1891 and a steelworker in 1911.  Of Robert's siblings there are 2 more whose name match his children's.  Not Robert but 2 of his siblings were born in "Bradley Staffordshire" Robert was born in Bilston Staffordshire.  Not finite proof but looks very good.

Thank you all, you helped me focus.