Butler Family - Liberties

[Pajobu]

Butler / Lawler Family Research

Hi My name is Paul John Butler, new to this site and relatively new to looking into my heritage. I appreciate I have a lack of familiarity with rules on these sites, though have read them, I hope I haven’t broken any or got anything wrong. Apologies in advance and if I can rectify please advise.

Obviously I have been reading and undertaken some basic searches but this is about finding more about my father. My father and mother long since departed, and as if I suppose quite often I these cases we never take the opportunity to listen more to family stories when we are younger…I was no exception.

I am basically looking for any information that would give more detail to what I have in respect of my father, a Dublin boy, but if you will allow me I will share what scant detail I have and ask if any of you kind people could assist, or suggest  to where I be redirected.

I have just returned from a couple of days in Dublin with a view of exactly just starting a visiting any addresses and piecing clues together. And indeed an exciting visit and one I shall be looking at repeating as I plan my next steps, but interestingly a place that felt very homely despite what is a significant economic crisis.

My father was James Butler (19 Jun 1926). I have his copy of a birth certificate which was made in 1946 so I would assume this was shortly or required for his departure to the UK. Other than that I have no idea when he arrived in the UK or where? But his first marriage was in the UK in 1956, so I have a 10 year span to find this.

Father was married twice, and appearing on his second marriage certificate (to my mother) was the middle name Seamus, which was always what I understood his middle name to be indeed he told me this, but it is not on his birth certificate, why?

Parents were Micheal Butler (a farrier) and Julia Lawler, and he was born in 6 Braithwaite St. On my visit these appear all to be 1950/60’s flats so have no idea what they looked like in 1926, and would be interested in any photos of this area pre and during the construction.

A kind reseracher at the Dublin archives found dad had two siblings at the same address to same parents a Micheal Joseph Butler (5 Mar 1921) and a Mary Elizabeth Butler (22 May 1924). There is a gap so I suspect there may be others?

The researcher also found the marriage certificate entry between the parents, who got married at Rathmines Church (I visited there it is beautiful) on 4 June 1920, and showed Julia’s father as John Lawler, a laborour from 9 Northbrook Road, and Micheal’s father James Butler as a laboror from 3 Sea Block, thomas Court.

I visited Northbrook and a fine property it is, but I suspect as a laborer he was a servant living there, and perhaps where Julia was born?

I visited Thomas Court and there are 4 blocks ABC & D in fact these are inscribed in the red stonework above the doorways so I suspect the entry should have read 3 C Block; however this is just guesswork!

I am aware both Thomas Court and Braithwaite Street were areas that served Guinness, but the archives there revealed nothing, and correct me if I am wrong these are either referred to as the ‘Liberties’ or Dublin 8, hence my thoughts of posting here…is that correct?

There are thousands of graveyeards so havn’t a clue where to start if I went next? 1911 census revelas no clues at these addresses I think?

I hope I haven’t bored you, and if you have taken the time to read thankyou.

All words of wisdon greatly appreciated.

Paul

[shanew147]

cant answer all your questions, but a few points...

Thomas Court and Braithwaite St would definitely be in the liberties.. not sure exactly what the boundaries are, but I would think a large part of the city to the south of the Liffey and west of Aungier street would be included, and out as far as James's st to the west, if not further.

Middle names do not always appear on civil registration records. Sometimes these are given at baptism.

Burials are not easy to trace as the location is not included on death certs, but I would start by trying to trace the exact dates of death first .. although this is not easy in a city area with common names.




Shane

[Pajobu]

Thank you Shane that is helpful.

I have dates of death of both my father and Michael Joseph, but they are here in England, but maybe to look first for graveyards in the Liberties Boundaries may be a start...

Much appreciated

Ive just had the following from the very nice person at the Guinness Archive re Thomas Court:

"There is very little information on the Thomas Court housing held in the
Guinness Archive. To the best of my knowledge, Thomas Court housing and
Belview Buildings were built by the Guinness brewery on land adjoining
the Brewery in the 1870s. Belview Buildings accommodated nearly 300
people in 73 units. Thomas Court comprised some 24 units housing over
100 people.

To be considered for the Company housing schemes, employees had to go
through a thorough assessment process. As a tenant of Thomas Court or
Belview Buildings, there were a number of rules that had to be obeyed.
The housing schemes were considered an extension to the Company itself
and their appearance had to be maintained.

No sub-letting was allowed, all hallways were to be kept clear, no
animals were allowed and clothes were not to be hung out. Half yearly
inspections were made in May and November by a member of Registry
Department Staff."

though when she undertook a check for me, none of the names were registered as employees!!!

[shanew147]

A,B,C & D block in Thomas Court are known as the Iveagh buildings, and were built in the early 1900s by a charity trust set up by the Guinness family. I dont think they were exclusively for employees of the brewery.

I dont believe many burials took place in the city in the 20thC. The major municipal cemeteries were established in the suburbs in the mid 1800s and most city burials took place there - e.g. Dean's grange, Prospect/Glasnevin etc


Shane

[Pajobu]

That's brilliant and perhaps answers the Guinness query

Again really helpful thankyou, i did take a photo of C block which (i think) i've attached !!

Thanks

oops no it wouldn't let me, another new thing i'll have to figure out

[shanew147]

the most common reason for photos' failing to attach is due to them being too large. If you reduce the size you might get it to work.

I'm not sure if the Iveagh trust buildings in Thomas Court are still intact as they were in the 1920s..google street view is not working for me at the moment, but there are photos online of some on the other buildings. Most of the trust housing was in the same style - e.g. link and link2 (Ireland Architecture website)


Shane

[Pajobu]

Thanks tried again, styling definitely look similar

mod note : reduced image size to fit screen a bit better

[ambyrne1]

I wonder if you're dad called himself Seamus because in English it means James.

My Grandfather came from 22 Braithwaite Street and it was houses back then. He was born 1922 there and his father also came from that street. The 1911 census below is for them John Joseph is my G Grandfather and what is surprising his mothers maiden name was Lawlor. 

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Merchant_s_Quay/Braithwaite_Street/56509/

My grandfather died a few years ago but his brothers were alive and living there until the 1960's.

It looks like they moved from there though, in the Dublin 1938 electorial list they are living in Eccles Street.

Butler, Julia 1939-40 INNS QUAY DI 169 14 ECCLES STREET
Butler, Michael 1939-40 INNS QUAY DI 168 14 ECCLES STREET

[Pajobu]

That is amazing thank you

There is a possibility the Lawlors were linked, which is definitely an avenue, and indeed we may have a true tie, thank you for that

but them moving somewhere between 1926 and 1939 to 14 Eccles Street is terrific thank you so much, is Inns Quay in a similar area?

I will now check Google maps

Paul